Does MS70 harm coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by brinssig, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    Cointalk seems to be blessed (or cursed) with an abundance of scientific based individuals. I know at least 8+ are chemists or chemistry teachers and then others in electronics/computers, photography, etc., so most chemistry or other science misunderstandings are usually corrected. The group as a whole are very experienced over a wide range, not just coinage. Yeah, we have some retired comedians from Vaudeville also that sometimes pop in :)

    Jim
     
    Stork, Dynoking, Kentucky and 3 others like this.
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  3. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    From your post
    "I would like to know what literature or past experience he is basing it on. Does he know for sure paint thinner will harm coins or is he just afraid of what it might do?"

    Are you serious? You think people are guessing?

    Depending what chemicals are in your paint thinner, they ABOSLUTELY can react with the metal in your coin. Some chemicals could break down into Hydrochloric acid, some chemicals remove toning by removing the metal on the surface of a coin. Some chemicals can leave a residue on a coin which can then react with environmental factors over time and cause damage. There are no short summaries to explain all the chemistry.

    If you don't trust the members here, then YOU need to start doing the searches, pulling the pieces together, and making your own conclusions. The information is out there, but it would be a lot of work to find all of this stuff and simplify it for the non-chemists, especially since the information provided to you has been well known for years. I'm afraid you're on your own doing the research.
     
    Dynoking and atcarroll like this.
  4. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    Please understand I do not mean any disrespect. I am coming on here cold not knowing anything about the people replying to my comments. I didn't know that many of the people on here are teachers of chemistry or have a knowledge of it. I am not terribly knowledgeable about chemistry myself which is why I ask a lot of questions.

    On the container for the paint thinner I use it says it contains petroleum distillate. When I look up petroleum distillate it contains "hydrocarbon solvents produced from crude oil. These solvents include mineral spirits, kerosene, white spirits, naphtha, and Stoddard solvent." Are these things harmful to coins? Is this what you mean by harmful things that could be in the paint thinner?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
    Kentucky likes this.
  5. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Yes I meant GDJMSP Numismatist. He has shared his knowledge and experience with the CT community on this topic at great length several times over the years. You have conflicting advice from a LD with whom you trust and have a relationship with. I guess you are left with a judgement call.
     
  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    You quoted me but replaced my words with those of a different member. I hope you will edit it.
     
  7. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    Sorry, I meant to address OldHoopster. How do I edit what I just said? Is there any way to delete it?
     
  8. TheMont

    TheMont Well-Known Member

    MS70 is not a dip, it is best applied with a cotton swab soaked in it and then washed and dried by dabbing the coin with a microfiber cloth. The only time I or any of my fellow club members have seen a problem with M70 is when it is used on circulated coins, the luster doesn't look right and it makes scratches more obvious. If you're not careful you may also leave a fingerprint on the coin if not handled by the edges only.
     
  9. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    I think it is now fixed. I clicked on reply as if I was going to reply to the right person, copied the address and replaced your address with the right one. Again, sorry for the mistake. Not sure if there is an easier way to do it but I think it worked.
     
    Kentucky and RonSanderson like this.
  10. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    I have been using the type of paper towel that would be used in the kitchen to dry off coins after I treat them. Do you know if this is safe to use on coins? I was using old tee shirts I had washed in unscented detergent but I stopped using them because I was afraid there might be some left-over residue from the detergent.

    Is the micrifiber cloth devoid of any thing harmful to coins? Where would I find them?

    When I use MS70 I won't dab the coin but will instead just let the coin soak in it. It seems to do the job for me.
     
  11. TheMont

    TheMont Well-Known Member

    As a coincidence, I just bought more microfiber cloths on eBay. I think it was something like 12 cloths for $5.95. The instructions on the bottle say to dab the coin with a cotton swab and I've done that for years without a problem. Remember to wash off the coin after using M70.
     
  12. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Couple of quibbles... paint thinner can be a multitude of materials and mixtures, and there is no hydrocarbon that has ever harmed a coin.


    PVC residue doesn't "form" on a coin, it leaks out of the PVC plastic.
     
    Oldhoopster likes this.
  13. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

     
  14. Dynoking

    Dynoking Well-Known Member

    Paper towels are not recommend for use on coins, because it contains wood fibers.
     
    wxcoin and -jeffB like this.
  15. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect since I was a baby

    Paper towels would be the last thing I'd use. Think about the materials that go into making paper towels.
     
  16. TheMont

    TheMont Well-Known Member

    Again, just dab the washed coin with a microfiber cloth.
     
  17. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Instead of "dab" I would say "blot"...the main thing is not to wipe or scrub. Not that the material of the paper towel, microfiber cloth, disposable diaper...whatever would scratch, but that it might scoot around on the surface some grit that would scratch. The biggest things in cleani... conserving a coin are 1) don't scrub or wipe (ancient coins excepted) and 2) use PURE solvents or accepted coin "dips" (MS70, VerdiCare, etc.). Don't hesitate to ask questions and don't be put off by sarcastic answers. Happy collecting. (mostly replying to @brinssig )
     
    Dynoking likes this.
  18. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    The last 2 steps for minimum to no residue on a coin, is that after any treatment , do a final rinse with water, drain by holding between thumb and finger until no visible water is apparent then rinse with acetone, drain and hold until acetone evaporates ( in a room with no flame, or outdoors) and then store/

    As a chemical, acetone carries any small quantity of water away with it when evaporating and leaves a dry coin, no wiping of ANY kind is desirable. IMO, Jim
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Others have provide adequate answers regarding documentation. As for Coin Care, please don't use it. And yes, there is an oily residue because it contains oil - that's why you don't want to use it !

    I'll try and make this as simple and straightforward as I can. Do not use MS70 on any copper coins - not ever ! MS70 contains chemicals that will cause the copper coins to turn weird colors, usually a shade of blue or purple.

    Pretty much all other coins, meaning gold, silver, or clad coins, MS70 is not going to hurt them. BUT - about the only coins you'd actually want to us MS70 on are Proof coins, and you only use it on them to remove haze from the coins. In all other cases, there are better things to use than MS70.

    What you're saying here, this is partially why you don't want to use MS70 on just any coin. You should only use MS70 in very specific cases - Proof coins that have haze on them.

    This has already been answered by others.

    Please, don't ever wipe your coins with anything, not anything ! There is no cloth, no fabric of any kind made by anybody, no paper towels, no napkins, no microfiber cloth, absolutely nothing - that is safe to wipe a coin with. You don't even want to use your finger. The very first rule in coin collecting is to never touch the surface of the coin with anything ! When you must hold a coin, hold it by the edges only - and never touch the coin anyplace else ! And before you do even that much, you should always wash your hands first !

    Wiping the surface of the coin with anything is harmful to the coin !

    To learn how to use distilled water, acetone, and xylene to safely clean your coins please read the instructions I have posted in this thread -
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/proper-acetone-procedure.193708/
     
    ldhair likes this.
  20. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    What if there is a piece of junk on a coin and other methods do not get it off? Would it be OK to use Coin Care on it and then rinse it off first with water and then with acetone to get off any remaining Coin Care from the coin?

    I use filtered water from the tap using Muti-Pure which is supposed to be one of the better ones for filtering out impurities in the water when I rinse off a coin. Could I use this to rinse off the coin or should I still use distilled water? I would prefer to use the filtered water since the distilled water may cost more money. I know the filter works because I always see black stuff in the filter when I change it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  21. brinssig

    brinssig Active Member

    I already know about not using MS70 on copper coins from personal experience. I tried using it on a corroded Indian Head cent I had found in a roll of cents. After a few days when I took it out the coin is about half the thickness of what it was. You can hardly tell it is an Indian Head cent with its features being very faint on the coin. I am assuming half the coin disappeared because half of the coin was corrosion and the MS70 got rid of the corrosion which made up half of the coin? I also tried the MS70 on a couple Lincoln Wheaties cent which both turned a deep shade of blue.
     
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