Featured Dae ye ken Scots minted dollars fur a wee while? If nae, keek 'ere.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by calcol, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    On a recent trip to Scotland, my family and I were able to visit the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh. It's a great museum with something for everyone. Admission is not too steep ... free for all. Of course, I had to look at some of the numismatic displays, especially those of Scottish coins.

    Scotland has had a number of mints over the centuries. The earliest known were at Carlisle and Edinburgh, which opened in the 1130's. Once coining got going, it spread rapidly until under the reign of Alexander III (1249–1286), there were 16 mints in operation! The other mints closed one by one until the reign of James IV (1488–1513), only the Edinburgh mint remained. Much later, a mint was re-opened at Stirling. Both the Edinburgh and Stirling mints closed for good in 1709.

    Scottish coins were minted in denominations that paralleled those of England ... crowns, pounds, shillings, groats and pence. However, in the museum, I encountered a Scottish denomination I didn't expect .... dollars! Yes, for a short time under the reign of Charles II, ruler of the United Kingdom from1660-1685, the Edinburgh mint produced dollars.

    There was an alternate designation for the dollar coin: four merks. Just as "dollar" was derived from the German "thaler", "merk" was derived from the German "mark". The dual terminology probably arose because the coins did not have a denomination on them. Folks at the time had to differentiate denominations based on diameter, weight and design. This was not unusual in Europe and was also the case for early US gold coins. Even today, some sources describe the coins as merks and other sources describe them as dollars. For example, the Krause Catalog describes them as merks. Heritage Auctions refers to them as dollars as does the National Museum of Scotland. Coins of Scotland, Ireland and the Islands by Spink, denominates Scottish coins of Charles II as merks before 1675 and dollars thereafter.

    So how did the Scottish dollar relate to the dominant UK denominations (pound, shilling, pence) of the time? Well, initially, a dollar was set at 53 shillings and 4 pence, and later at 56 shillings. I'm sure you recall that there were 12 pence to a shilling, so 53s4d = 53*12 + 4 = 640 pence to the dollar. At the later value, there were 56*12 = 372 pence to the dollar.

    Silver coins were issued in 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8. 1/16 and 1/32 dollar denominations. The table below shows the equivalent values in merks as well as in shillings and pence for both conversion values.

    2019-09-28_20-31-07.jpg
    If the above is not confusing enough for you, well ... there was an earlier Scottish denomination (well before Charles II) called the ryal that was worth 30s and sometimes called a dollar.

    Not only have some of the coins of that era been preserved, both in museums and by private collectors, but the National Museum of Scotland also has some dies and coining machinery as well.

    The coin pictured below is an example of a Charles II Scottish dollar (i.e. four merks).
    Sorry for the low resolution. For a higher resolution picture of a one merk coin, click here.

    Scotland_2019_09_National_Museum_dollar.jpg

    The grand gallery of the museum:
    National_Museum_of_Scotland_grand_gallery.jpg


    A bit about the Edinburgh mint:

    Scotland_2019_09_National_Museum_coins_g.jpg

    Some equipment remnants from the Edinburgh mint are pictured below. The steel roller (on left) was part of a machine to adjust strips of silver to correct thickness prior to planchets being punched out. Device on the right is a planchet punch.

    Scotland_2019_09_National_Museum_coins_d_low_res.jpg

    Below are dies and coin examples for quarter, half and full dollars.

    Scotland_2019_09_National_Museum_coins_a_low_res.jpg

    Below are dies and coins for smaller fractional dollars, the bawbee (sixpence) and bodle (two pence).


    Scotland_2019_09_National_Museum_coins_c_low_res.jpg


    If you're ever in the Edinburgh area, you won't regret visiting the National Museum of Scotland. Afterwards, there are plenty of pubs nearby whaur ye kin gilravage a wee dram.

    Cal
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2019
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  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Aye, I have been wantin' a wee Scots coin for my collection for decades, but alas, have not yet crossed that threshold. Soon, perhaps.

    In the meantime, I have made elongated coins with my clan badge motif. :)

    (Clan Donnachaidh - Clan Robertson.)

    Giveaway of two sets here (drawing on 9/30/19)

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    I belong to clan Bruce. I have a Bruce tartan cap (see below), but no kilt and unfortunately no Scottish coins. Cal
    cap_Bruce_tartan_2019_09_a.jpg
     
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  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I don't have anything with our tartan on it, either, and finally have outgrown the desire to get the kilt and all that, but I do plan to remedy my lack of a Scottish coin soon.
     
  6. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    Thanks for the write up @calcol.

    One of my family threads can be traced back to Clan Macphail circa 1750 - a branch of Clan Chattan.

    I don't have any tartans, and I don't have any coins. But intend to acquire both!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  7. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Thanks for the tip! I have a trip planned to Scotland next fall.
     
  8. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

    I have only one wee Scottish coin and I had it for 50 years, a copper turner from King Charles I:

    [​IMG]
    Scotland Turner (two pence) Charles I
    Copper, 20 mm, 3.16 gm, minted 1642 to 1650

    Obverse: Crown over large "CR" - CAR DG SCOT ANG FRA E HIB R
    (Charles by the Grace of God, Scotland England France and Ireland, King)

    Reverse: Thistle - NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET
    (No one shall hurt me with impunity)

    The Numista website gives the coin weight as around 2.0 gm and mine weighs 3.16 gm.

    :)
     
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  9. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Enjoy your trip. We spent most of our time there in small towns in the highlands and had a great time. Another museum to consider is the Hunterian in Glasgow. It has a huge coin collection ... 80,000 coins, medals, etc. Unfortunately, we could nae fit it in to our schedule.

    Cal
     
  10. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I'm going on a 10 day guided tour of Scotch distilleries throughout the country with a Scotch master. The tour begins and ends in Edinborough.
     
  11. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Ah ... fare thee well then. If you should go to the museum, there is a whiskey store near it called Whiski, which also has an adjacent restaurant and bar. They have a huge selection, the clerks are very knowledgeable, and they will pour you as many tastes as you like. Their prices are pretty good. Best prices for Scotch though are at large chain grocery stores if they have what you want. We found Tesco to have the best selection and great prices.

    Cal
     
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  12. David Colquhoun

    David Colquhoun Active Member

    Yeah Cal Scotland rocks ,I know because I live there
    David colquhoun from the clan colquhoun
     
  13. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    Scotland is a lovely country. Best feature is the people ... friendly, helpful, knowledgeable. We stayed in Glasgow, Dunkeld/Birnham, Tarbet, Dunfirmline, and Plockton. Plockton was our favorite. Also did day trips to Arbroath, Stirling, Skye, Falkirk, Pitlochry and Edinburgh. Kept busy and relaxed at the same time.

    Cal
     
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  14. David Colquhoun

    David Colquhoun Active Member

    Nice Cal,that sounds like fun.I live in a small town called Dunoon on the west coast.only have to drive five minutes out of town to see lochs and hills great for mountain biking or walks.
    In a village just next to Dunoon there was an American navel base with ship like the Simon lake and uss hunly also subs too.Having an American bowling and skating ally in our town that we were allowed to use when we were kids was brilliant.I think this why I have a big fascination with USA coins
     
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