1914-D Lincoln: masterful counterfeit

I started another thread about this about a week ago, and there was a fair amount of debate on it. Well, I just got it in hand and took my own pics. I acetoned it. But take a look at that "4" digit. A jeweler or watchmaker or counterfeiter did some impressive work on it. Took me a good 5 minutes with a 30x loupe to see it. It got easier under my new camera. I believe this is a 1911-D, but it could just be a straight-up struck counterfeit. There's something going on with the 9 digit as well. Please share your thoughts and observations. @Jack D. Young
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The 4 certainly looks different that the 191 but it is pretty good compared to some others that I have seen.

 

The vertical bar of the "4" appears to be slightly longer than the other "1's" to make this an altered 1911 in my opinion. However, the horizontal bar doesn't look right, either.

Chris

 

You can see the 4 is unlike the other digits in color, etc.
Notice the shoulder where a post 1917 would have the VDB.
The rest of the coin is in excellent condition, but that area seems
to be all scratched out.

 

It did occur to me that it might be unlikely that someone would alter an UNC 1911-D, which would be worth perhaps $300 as it sat...

 

Scratched out area, now that’s a tell

 

There is a lot about this coin that just does not look right. LIBERTY appears to be too thin. The 9 is too thin, the tail of the 4 is tapered and too long. The scratches at the bottom of Abe's bust appear to be raised, making me thing this was struck from a die that was created from an original Lincoln Cent of another date and then altered. It would be much easier to fill in the digits on a die and then carve out the new date.

 

Thanks for your post. Very educational. Here's another old Coin Talk thread:
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/authentic-vs-counterfeit-1914-d-lincoln.76229/
Google photos of other counterfeit 1914 D Lincoln cents
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=photo of 1914 D Lincoln cent&chips=qhoto of 1914 d lincoln cent,online_chips:counterfeit&usg=AI4_-kQGdJFtWRjRS-BEC_C9SdzknGkDEA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQ89umqpLiAhXkYd8KHcUnAAoQ4lYIKygC&biw=1353&bih=620&dpr=1.01

 

I just looked at your other thread and it seems @ldhair hit on a few things that are clearer in your new photos.

 

I see what a you are saying but my first thought was an altered 1911-D too.

A MS63BN '11-D is a $100 coin. If it went 64BN then $200. Well worth a shot at a $3,000 '14-D in 63 or $4,000 at 64.

 

There's also a raised line on the die next to the tail of the 9.

 

Not many people are going to buy a raw coin for $3000-$4000. Since it would have to be graded and certified first (and come back as altered/counterfeit) it's not worth
ruining a good 1911-D for this purpose.

 

You'd be surprised how many people still prefer albums.

 

It is not an altered 1911-D.

 

Of course you can like an album. But I don't see the point of spending $4000 on a coin that hasn't been certified authentic, when it is one of the most counterfeited coins.

 

That 4 doesn't look right. Not sure if its altered, but its not a genuine 14D in my opinion

 

Can you shoot a picture of the edge?

The fabric of the coin looks off. The surfaces are too smooth and the relief of the bust seems too low. The raised ridge by the 9 is certainly concerning. Looks like a high-end die-transfer fake of a genuine AU details coin.

 

The reverse is double-struck (look at E of ONE and T of CENT). This corresponds EXACTLY to the date area on the obverse.

And there appear to be toolmarks along the lower reverse rim.

 

I’m just going to through this out there:

This coin matches the diagnostics of die pair 3, but it looks “enhanced” with sharper letters and the like. Could this be a die created with 3-D scanning technology and computer-carved?