Bitter? Just a tiny tiny bit.....

I've been waiting for this coin to pop up since I sold it at a show in November.

Exactly as I thought was going to happen.

Can you guess which one I subbed straight out of the Wayte Raymond book with 8 others, that graded AU Details, and which one is now a PCGS AU55.....



Losing faith in this whole grading thing if this is "The STANDARD for the Rare Coin Industry"

I remember Tommy Boy saying something about a guarantee in a movie this one time.




So what is it? AU Details or AU55? Different day shouldn't equal different grade if they're the STANDARD for the industry, right? More so when it cost me $5k in value....



I did get a cool green box though. Maybe that'll be worth something in the future

PCGS unboxing of my very first PCGS submission from Nov. The 1809 Bust Half comes out at 1:40ish....



Needless to say, don't think I'll be having anymore PCGS unboxing videos from here on out.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I am guessing that the first graded and the second one didn’t. It looks like the first one has been darkened, which helped cover up the finger prints on the obverse of the second one.

On both I see something that looks like graffiti above the eagle’s head. Maybe they saw that the first time and didn’t the second.

As for grading and “details” or body bags, I understand your disappointment. Years ago I had condition census 1797 large cent that had AU detail. It had some red corrosion on the reverse. When I submitted it, it came back in a body bag. I landed on my feet because I consigned it to a copper coin auction where it made it to the cover of the catalog. Later I saw the coin in a straight graded holder where it got the AU.

You have to remember that these graders spend maybe a minute or two total, among all of them, when they grade coins. They don’d spend the time that we do grading coins. It can be one grade one time and a body bag the next or visa versa.

 

And post like this is why I buy a coin slabed as well as raw the same way...by what MY EYE tells me not a slab,not a sticker..... there is no standard just high and mighty grading companies who yes control the playing field.

 

Makes you sick, doesn't it? It happens, but sometimes in our favor...
Still, a $5000 loss is hard to swallow. @lordmarcovan once took a $40,000-50,000 loss on a newly discovered die pairing of a draped bust half. (Though he might kill me for reminding him). Ignorance is bliss. That's why I wouldn't have ever stalked that coin.

 

"Have you not benefited from an increase in value on one or more occasions when you bought, cracked, resubmitted and scored on a coin that was clearly undergraded when you bought it? I know have"

That maybe be true Mike....but it just proves that there is "No Standards!"
And the the grading companies do and will control the market.
And now to open another can of worms...but I will they need be over seened and answer for their mistakes.
This is one of many reasons in the past I wouldn't subscribe to slabing coins.
So they didn't get it right in the mid 80's so we break them out at present and get a upward pass.....so what next???? 5 years from now they change standards again and either up grade or down grade.
Poppycock!
They need be regulated as many other business are..... and helded to a standard that isn't tainted or controled by a the big 3.

 

Looks like a bunch of halves that someone cleaned so that the surfaces would match, then put them in their album - hence the similar toning.

 

The "graffiti" that you speak of is on all O-102 halves for the year. As for which picture of the coin straight graded I would say the first one as well--not that it matters.

A PCGS 55 XXX edge 1809 seems to sell for somewhere between 4500 (no CAC) and 5500 (CAC) dollars depending on the auction over the past year (An un-authenticated one went for 1600.) Although I don't know what the OP coin sold for in the problem slab I would have expected it to go for around 2500 or so so yes, I would understand a little bitterness.

 

Mike we have met and done business on several occasions ....I do believe I am older than you.. lol But back in the 60's you and I would of sit down and discussed the coin we were trading or selling as to all its qualities or issues. At some point we agree or agree to disagree . It was fun,it was educational because we would feed off each other's knowlege or experence.
I would be totally on board with that..... but until then I don't trust the industry.
And I do believe without a doupt that there is a rat in the wood pile!

 

"I got a lot of heat from one or two prominent members for that suggestion, and the criticism was fair, but I still occasionally think about how that would work out in contrast to where things presently."
@ToughCOINS
You know Mike that's a shame as sooner or later their scales are going to balance on the negative, and when it does well maybe they will wake up.
There's a need to standardize the hobby.... for more than 1 reason..... no one likes to be regulated.....but tell that to the families who lost members in the last 2 air crashes....true apples and oranges here....but is it....they paid for a seat from point A to point B....they didn't get there!
You paid to have a coin graded and it was detailed,then the person you sold it to got a huge payday as it did grade.
Accountability ..... why is it I send in 5 coins and get so so grades....and Modern Coin Mart and gets hundreds of MS 70 coins?
Look I do understand now business is done....I've been in it for 50 plus years !
And over those 50 years I believe in my line of work have seen it all.
Checks and balances aren't a bad thing....especially if your seated on an air craft with issues....same thing here there are issues and anyone who denies it is in for a crude awaking.

 

Color is and always has/will be the hardest thing to make a call on. All the collectors and dealers incessantly complaining about color all the time and saying this and that is AT on slabbed coins didn't do you any favors. There was A LOT of that going on during the time frame you submitted

The market regulates them as they should. The moment the government tries to regulate grading I'm 100 percent out in every way shape and form forever as will be the majority of the market. It would kill the hobby.

Grading evolves over time as it should. The day it stops changing and stays stagnate for decades is the day basically no one cares about the hobby anymore and everyone just got lazy.

 

First one was mine.

 

Yeah that was a lucky break. The only reason I sent it in was for preservation purposes on such a thin coin I wanted the protection of the slab. Getting this AU50 was a bonus for sure. I do think, like you did prior to sending in yourself, that AU50 is the correct grade and you got shafted with your original submission.

 

It didn't get the details grade for color. When @BigTee44 submitted the coin, it came back AU details-Cleaned. There is a reasonable debate to be had for AT/NT; cleaned vs not cleaned shouldn't be that hard of a call.

 

Aka cleaned and then got the color.

 

What does that mean?
The coin got the details grade for being "cleaned." It didn't change in appearance from when @BigTee44 owned it (the color stayed the same) and then straight graded.

 

Cleaned and retoned was the first reasoning most likely.