Featured The Slabbed (NGC/PCGS) AT-QT (Artificial/Questionable Toning) Thread

Morgandude11 · Feb 5, 2019

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Lehigh96 · Feb 5, 2019

I will say NT/MA on the WLH. The photo leaves much to be desired and I'm not sure it accurately portrays the actual appearance of the coin. It appears to be diffused lighting which enhances color but often gives a more pronounced appearance than actually exists.

IBetASilverDollar · Feb 5, 2019

looks fine to me

Morgandude11 · Feb 5, 2019

I would say NT/MA, and agree with the fact that the photo exaggerates the toning. It is an eBay seller’s photo, from a reputable dealer.

ddddd · Feb 5, 2019

Looks ok and agreed about the photo likely not being the best representation
...MA

JPeace$ · Feb 5, 2019

I agree with MA.

Mainebill · Feb 5, 2019

LuxUnit said: ↑

@Mainebill when is storage toning considered NT vs AT? Just when its MA? ha
Click to expand...

When they give it a straight grade. Lol. Usually when it’s happened over time and environment rather than someone trying to speed it along with chemicals gases or baking in a potato etc

Mainebill · Feb 5, 2019

Walker natural good looking and likely more subdued in hand as I think the color in the pics has been slightly enhanced

EyeAppealingCoins · Feb 5, 2019

NT on the 46 WLH

thomas mozzillo · Feb 6, 2019

AT/MA (Just to be different).

Stanley Bass · Feb 6, 2019

I'm sorry sir, I appreciate the thorough response but that is an obvious AT...

GDJMSP said: ↑

It could very easily be NT, and it could very easily be AT. And absolutely nobody, with the possible exception of the original owner of the coin, could say one way or another with any degree of certainty. The only thing anybody can do is guess.

So far, there have been 4 responses that question the toning because they haven't seen or can't imagine how a coin could tone that color. Well, if one hasn't seen coins of that color/s or with that color/s on them then you simply haven't seen any. But just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, cant' exist. And if you can't imagine how it got that color, I would have to ask why not ? I mean all it takes for any coin to tone any color, in a perfectly natural way, is for the coin to be exposed the right contaminants in the air, and/or environmental conditions.

To start, these are 2 different examples of colors visible to the naked eye in the light spectrum, presented in 2 different charts.

View attachment 845110 View attachment 845111

And as you can see the color that is on that coin is present in both examples.

When it comes to toning people talk about color progression on a regular basis. And, some if not many seem to think that when it comes to toning that the colors on a coin have to follow that given progression, as represented in the charts above. This is simply not true. The reason it's not true is quite simple, it's because given contaminants (which can be read as different chemicals in the air) cause or create different colors on a coin. Some will cause reds, some will cause yellows, some greens, etc etc. But if a given contaminant is not present, then those colors simply not be seen. 1, 2, 3 or even more colors may be and can be completely skipped when it comes to toning.

And, if at one stage of a coins life, the coin is exposed to one set of contaminants causing given colors, and then the coin is sold or passed to another owner, it is exposed to a completely different set of contaminants causing given but different colors. So again colors can be skipped.

And, even if the coin is held by the same owner, if the conditions change in any way, then the colors of the toning can and will change. All of this is true because all toning is caused and created by what the coin is exposed to including temperature, moisture, and contaminants, and storage methods. And if any of them change then the toning changes.

Point is, there is no such thing as a given color progression in natural toning. Various colors can be and are produced on coins in a haphazard manner. Sure, color progression may happen given the right conditions, but there is absolutely nothing that dictates that it must happen !

So, all that is required for a given coin to tone a given color - is the right conditions. And given the right conditions even those shades of greens and blues, seen on the coin above, will be produced - in a completely natural way - NT.

Or, put the coin in a sealed box, pump in the right gasses, with the right temperature and moisture content, for the right amount of time, and the exact same colors will be produced on the coin, also in a completely natural way, but much faster.

And absolutely nobody will be able to tell one from the other because both coins were toned the same colors by exactly the same things, with the only differences being intent and the time frame involved.

Sure, gassing the coins is artificial, of that there is no doubt. But the results are identical, in every way, to natural toning because the exact same contaminants and conditions are what created the toning.

Now another example of what some call natural toning is album toning. Nobody ever calls it anything but natural toning ! But, if somebody buys an old album, deliberately places coins in it, stores it an extra warm place with a bit of added humidity, and before long you can have some beautifully toned coins.

Is that natural or artificial toning ? And can you tell one from the other ? The answer to the second question is absolutely not because they are identical and caused by exactly the same things. Just like the coins in the box are.

But the answer to the second question, that's gonna depend on whom you ask. Some will say it's completely natural, others will say it's artificial because it was done deliberately and intentionally accelerated.

Absolutely nobody doubts that old albums are used like this to tone coins. People post about it on a regular basis. Articles in coin magazines have even been written about it. Some collectors even brag about doing it and the success they have with it. But mention a sealed box with gasses pumped in, heat and humidity duplicated, and people will scoff and doubt and say it doesn't work, can't work. But it absolutely does work, and very, very, well. Just like with the old albums the only thing you are doing is duplicating the same conditions that natural toning occurs under.

And if you think you can tell one from the other, well then all you're doing is fooling yourself because you don't want to believe it's that easy. But it is that easy. And it is done every day and has been being done for years ! But in a controlled manner so as to not wreck the toner market. You don't kill the goose that lays gold eggs !

Everybody out there who owns beautiful toned coins, you can bet that some of the ones you own were toned artificially. But neither you nor anybody else, excepting the person who made them, is ever going to be able to identify them.

So the answer to the question for the coin above, nobody knows. It could easily be NT or AT. But you can guess, and you may even be right, regardless of your answer.
Click to expand...

Morgandude11 · Feb 9, 2019

Okay, here is another. Gassed, or no gas?

Lehigh96 · Feb 9, 2019

I'm not sure if it is AT but it is ugly as sin. I say NT/MA.

ddddd · Feb 9, 2019

Coin 1 - Clad Dime (pg.1) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 2 - Franklin (pg. 1) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 3 - CBH (pg. 4) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 4 - Silv PR Ike (pg. 5) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 5 - Peace Dollar (pg. 7) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 6 - Ohio Silv PR 25c (pg. 8) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 11 (AT/QC)
Coin 7 - 1964 MS 25c (pg. 9) - 11 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 8 - 1974 Clad PR 25c (pg. 11) - 4 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 9 - 85-O Morgan (pg. 12) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC) *no points*
Coin 10 - 1890 IHC (pg. 13) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 3 (AT/QC)
Coin 11 - 1893 Col. Commem (pg. 14) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 12 - Silver 3c (pg. 15) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 13 - SBA (pg. 16) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 14 - Large Cent (pg. 16) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 15 - Franklin (pg. 17) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 14 (AT/QC)
Coin 16 - 1964 10c (pg. 18) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 10 (AT/QC)
Coin 17 - 1966 1c SMS 67*(pg. 19) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 18 - Silve 25c (pg. 19) - 10(NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 19 - Peace Dollar (pg. 20) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 10 (AT/QC)
Coin 20 - 1945 1c (pg. 21) - 14 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 21 - 1964 50c (pg. 22) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 22 - Peace $1 (pg. 23) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 3 (AT/QC)
Coin 23 - Franklin (pg. 24) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 24 - Jefferson 5c (pg. 24) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 25 - Peace $1 (pg. 25) - 8 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 26 - 1947 10c (pg. 26) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 27 - 1940 Walker (pg. 27) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 28 - 1970-S Cent (pg. 28) - 11 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 29 - Roanoke Commem (pg. 29) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 30 - Peace Dollar (pg. 30) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 31 - Peace Dollar (pg. 30) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC)
Coin 32 - Long Island Commem (pg. 31) - 8 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 33 - New Rochelle Commem (pg. 32) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 34 - 1964 Kennedy (pg. 32) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 35 - Proof Franklin (pg. 32) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 2 (AT/QC)
Coin 36 - Wheat Cent (pg. 34) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 37 - Wheat Cent (pg. 35) - 7 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 38 - Franklin (pg. 36) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 12 (AT/QC)
Coin 39 - Franklin (pg. 37) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 40 - Mercury (pg. 38) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC)
Coin 41 - Silver Washington 25c (pg. 39) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 42 - Clad Ike (pg. 39) - 10 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 43 - Silver Kennedy (pg. 39) - 3 (NT/MA) vs 5 (AT/QC)
Coin 44 - MPL Cent (pg. 40) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 45 - Peace Dollar (pg. 42) - 4 (NT/MA) vs 6 (AT/QC)
Coin 46 - 1996 Nickel (pg. 43) - 0 (NT/MA) vs 8 (AT/QC)
Coin 47 - 1928 Peace Dollar (pg. 44) - 2 (NT/MA) vs 7 (AT/QC)
Coin 48 - 1955 Lincoln Cent (pg. 46) - 9 (NT/MA) vs 0 (AT/QC)
Coin 49 - 1963 Nickel (pg. 47) - 5 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC)
Coin 50 - 1955 Cent (pg. 47) - 1 (NT/MA) vs 4 (AT/QC)
Coin 51 - Walker (pg. 48) - 6 (NT/MA) vs 1 (AT/QC)
-----------------------

NT/MA: 31 total
AT/QC: 20 total

-----------------------
Points:

ddddd - 13
Lehigh96 - 2
TheFinn - 1
BlackberryPie - 1
EyeAppealingCoins - 1
Mainebill - 1
Morgandude11 - 1

ddddd · Feb 9, 2019

Continuing with the Peace Dollar...

Here is the NGC cert page
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3520923-001/64/

I don't think it was gassed. I'll agree with @Lehigh96 that it's ugly, but
MA/NT

Morgandude11 · Feb 9, 2019

ddddd said: ↑

Continuing with the Peace Dollar...

Here is the NGC cert page
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3520923-001/64/

I don't think it was gassed. I'll agree with @Lehigh96 that it's ugly, but
MA/NT
Click to expand...

I agree. NT/MA, and butt ugly.

longshot · Feb 9, 2019

MA

Mainebill · Feb 9, 2019

Natural and ugly

Razz · Feb 10, 2019

Beauty is skin deep but that is ugly to the bone!

ron_c · Feb 10, 2019

NT and would pass on it.

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Featured The Slabbed (NGC/PCGS) AT-QT (Artificial/Questionable Toning) Thread

Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

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Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

IBetASilverDollar Well-Known Member

Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

ddddd Member

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Mainebill Bethany Danielle

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Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

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Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

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Featured The Slabbed (NGC/PCGS) AT-QT (Artificial/Questionable Toning) Thread

Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

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Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

IBetASilverDollar Well-Known Member

Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

ddddd Member

JPeace$ Coinaholic

Mainebill Bethany Danielle

Mainebill Bethany Danielle

EyeAppealingCoins Well-Known Member

thomas mozzillo Well-Known Member

Stanley Bass Member

Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

ddddd Member

ddddd Member

Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

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Razz Critical Thinker

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