Featured Can you define artificial toning ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GDJMSP, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I created sulfur vapor and suspended the coin in it for a while just to see what would happen with a lustrous coin. It works well for circulated coins.

    He’s a sour person overall, so he reaps what he sows. He never offers anything constructive to any discussion.
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    No, Corg has a sense of humor. Maybe you need to look into getting one.

    After all, there’s nothing funnier than toner fans. They’re stinking hilarious.
     
  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    You have a warped sense of humor
     
  5. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Of course, and I worked hard to get it, too.
     
  6. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Knowledge of how unstable toners are comes NOT from how many you have bought and sold, but from holding them for decades. Are we clear on that? Flipping coins does not get you that experience. All that does is pass your “problem” onto some other unsuspecting sucker. Toning ALWAYS progresses and is headed to black. Like verdegris except slower. “You can’t stop it, you can only hope to slow it down.”
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  7. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    And all were doing so well. Lets get back to the original line of discussion if possible, Thanks!

    Jim
     
  8. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Great! AT is what I won’t pay for, and since I won’t pay for ANY toning, it’s the equivalent of saying that for ME, it’s ALL AT. And that is what gives me peace of mind. I don’t care WHAT is MA. None of it is KA - Kurt Acceptable. I get to determine what MY standards are. I believe toner fans are in massive self-delusion and I have all the experience I need to support that view and act upon it accordingly.

    Paul wants to leverage what he knows about toners to promote them and sell them.

    I want to leverage what I know about toners to NOT buy them and encourage others to do the same.

    Standoff. End of story.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  9. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    Kirk , unfortunately the world doesn't know your background, and so the story will not end in either of our lifetimes.There is nothing wrong with it, if Paul wants to promote them or even sell them in the for sale advert. if he wishes, just as you can continue to convert people to the purity of white light. It moves constantly as people join or leave collecting. No one has to accept it, they can choose their whole path. The natural path is to corrode, only efforts of man in one way or another prevents this. Jim
     
    Lehigh96 likes this.
  10. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Gladly,

    1886 Morgan Dollar NGC MS65 685348-006

    Heritage Photo 2002

    [​IMG]

    Heritage Photo 2012

    [​IMG]




    1886 Morgan Dollar ANACS MS65 969389

    Heritage Photo 2002

    [​IMG]

    My Photo 2012

    [​IMG]


    I have just provided photographic proof of two certified coins that I personally owned for 10 years that had no discernible change in their toning. If you would like me to post more, I can.

    Since you are a photography buff, it should be easy for you to post 2 examples of certified coins that "turned" in their holders. After all, you said that EVERY COIN YOU OWNED TURNED, so all you have to do is pick 2, right?
     
  11. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Sure, if there were “before” pictures. There aren’t. The only pictures I have of any coins are a few tests with my newish scope, and the very recent automatic NGC photos, and only one of those has toning, and I’ve only owned that about 2 years. Basically, I DO NOT PHOTOGRAPH COINS, with incredibly rare exceptions and recent lighting and exposure tests. That one toner, in NGC plastic, is noticeably different in two years.

    BTW, the density and contrast differences of each pair of yours is so different as to render a comparison useless. What I CAN see is that the shapes match.

    Right now, my scope rig can’t get a field any bigger than a raw half dollar, and that’s a tight fit. I have nothing that can shoot a slab. I have no need for such. I ain’t SELLING anything, and have no plans to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  12. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    Now we need a definition of "discernible".
     
  13. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    1924-D Standing Liberty Quarter NGC MS67

    My Photo 11/26/2010

    [​IMG]

    My Photo 11/15/2018

    [​IMG]
     
  14. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Most of my older pieces that have MASSIVELY turned are in small soap bar ANACS plastic, especially PF67 CAM cameo proofs that no longer look like ANY kind of proof at all.
     
  15. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    And about 1 stop exposure difference is close enough for you?
     
  16. SlipperySocks

    SlipperySocks Well-Known Member

    20181115_170957.jpg Both of these coins bring me the same amount of viewing pleasure.

    20181115_165316.jpg
    20181115_165418.jpg 20181115_165418.jpg

    LMAO @ "asking for a friend" You guys crack me up. This thread is both very educational and entertaining. Meanwhile, I'm just going to continue to sit in the middle of the Blast white versus Toning discussion and continue to pick what makes me happy from each side.
     
  17. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    You guys want more? The idea that toning is unstable and that coins will turn in their holders is ridiculous.
     
  18. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Dude, I can't exactly replicate the lighting conditions from 8 years ago. Those photos are good enough to show that the coin is the same coin and the TONING HAS NOT CHANGED! If you are nitpicking about exposure levels not being equal, I'm declaring victory!
     
  19. George McClellan

    George McClellan Active Member

    The "premiums", regardless of what makes them premium...
    ...do pay the "rent" for the "hobby".
    More exactly, the premium buyers, bless them!:happy:
     
  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Slow down a bit with the goalposts there, Kurt. :rolleyes:

    Yes, the exposures and lighting are somewhat different, but they're more than close enough to let you compare colors spot-by-spot. If toning had progressed substantially during that ten-year interval, surely there would be some point on the coin where you could point and say "that was white, but now it's gold", or "that was magenta, but now it's cyan". I'm not seeing it.

    For any of the coins that you've seen turn, are you saying that a pair of photos like this would make the difference indiscernible? If so, what makes you think that your memory is more trustworthy than a pair of well-lit and well-exposed images, even if they aren't identically lit and exposed?

    I haven't seen your coins in-hand, and I haven't seen @Lehigh96's coins in-hand, and I probably don't have enough of an eye for toning to remember their details if I had seen them. But I do know something about visual perception and memory. I think @Lehigh96's photos make his case decisively.

    If your coins are turning faster and more obviously, maybe we should be looking to compare environmental factors. You've talked about living in a rural setting before your recent move. Did you use A/C in summers? How did you heat? How close were the neighbor's pastures? :)
     
    Lehigh96 and baseball21 like this.
  21. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I am NOT talking about the color of each point on the coin changing, that’s seldom, but it does happen. I’m talking about a steady DARKENING, and that’s what I object to. It’s not so much a chroma issue; it’s a “luminance” issue, I think they call in in the digital world. In traditional photography, it’s what we called “density”. They keep getting DARKER, headed to black. My few Morgans (VERY FEW) are among the most stable, which I have chalked up to a unique chemical soup of Gawd knows what in those bags in vaults. My main complaint is minor coins, PARTICULARLY cents and nickels, but some dimes too.

    I own only one toned half, a lowly ‘64, which I sent in to prove toning adds grade points. It’s a 63 in any sane world. Hits all over it. It came back 65 because it has butt-ugly toning all over it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
    George McClellan likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page