Silver getting crushed today

So let me make sure I got this right. Bullion people are desperate, uneducated people who cannot grasp the concept of real investing and they don't really have any money to play with anyhow.
From the moderator...

 

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I did not say "uneducated", I said:
, "so they keep hard assets for value , rather than education which in the long run if properly chosen and obtained will bring in much more than their hard assets over time."

If you wish to argue that stacking metal rather than getting an education and knowledge and skills for an ( or better income) occupation that could provide many times better income , is a better way... give it a try

Jim

 

I'm buying more stock tomorrow; a new investment move.
FYI, my savings acct just upped to 1.85% far better than PM returns.

 

The problem with PMs and with stocks too, is one has to have the funds to obtain enough where any price moves (excluding options) one can profit enough after fees and taxes (yes Federal taxes that flow through to State).

In order to properly "track" PMs one has to identify the major influential/impact factors. Then identify the minor influential factors and track all those in on and off hours. One may create certain algorithms to handle those situations to help in decision making. There, of course, may be "immediate" factors; but one has to learn (or pay) where to get that information (such as having a paid professional brokerage acct).

Early on in this thread I went through and identified what the major impact was when the PMs moved. But I'm not a Gold/Silver investor by definition. I only dabble in the stuff for personal fun. I'm too busy trying to make money in the stock market rather than the PM market as the PM moves are too small (for my investment strategies).

I totally understand various ppls reasoning for hoarding/stacking PMs. It's their choice based upon their beliefs. But with PMs averaging down or quite some time now even those ppl question where it's going. The Future is unknown. But we know where it's at now. I think it's low now and "technically" should start averaging up over time. But "when?" … who knows as PMs are not revenue/income stream based investments like stocks which is one of the problems.

 

My description of a silver stacker.

I am a silver bullion buyer. I buy American Silver Eagles for at least $1.50 over spot each (usually even more). My local coin shop/online dealers buys American Silver Eagles at spot. Silver is $14.50 right now. That means if I want to make money, I need silver to be over $16 an ounce before I make any money selling my silver to the local coin shop. If it reaches $16 an ounce, I might be able to make a penny per Eagle. So the question is, when will silver rise 9.5% to reach $16.00 an ounce so I can make 1 penny per ASE?

Silver investing is a fool's errand in the short term. There is hardly any opportunity to make money. Maybe if you stash that silver away for 10, 20, 30, 40 years, it will make you money. But the only real positive is probably for you to stash a little away in case all of your other investments and assets go kaput. At least you'll still have a few bucks in silver. But, of course, we're all hoping that we will have a job, our stocks and bonds do well, and our property increases in value, so we won't care about our silver.

So we actually don't want to rely on/make money on silver after all?

I'm confused. What is the point of all this, then?

 

The point is to give wallstreet leave blowers (blow a lot of air, make a lot of noise) a place where they can pretend to be investment geniuses.

 

I'm confused too because you seem more of a "flipper" to me than a stacker with a very fixed and low profit buy/sell process. Why buy/sell from/to the same location? They buy low (from you) and sell high (to you) thus making your profit cycle even harder to attain. You need to buy low and sell high (to other buyers) to maximize profit. But those profit cycles can be extremely long as the latest downwards trend shows.

But it's all definitions at this point right? Hoarder vs stacker vs flipper vs investor vs buyer. And then it relies upon our money/investment strategy first and foremost.

For instance, I relie upon cash first and foremost. Not PMs. To me PMs are totally worthless for "cash" in an emergency. For some ppl it apparently works. Cash is king in the power outages/local disasters that I've been in, seen and read about. To me, (my viewpoint), not having cash is foolish at any level. Matter of fact I use cash for many person to person/business transactions .. I get some pretty good discounts that way and thus save money.

Real Estate. Really if you relie upon property values to go up then I have to question what investment do you have in it? Do you owe about as much as it's worth in which case property values has a significant valuation impact. My goal for any real estate (house) is to have it paid off 100%. At which point any large fluctuation in property value has squat impact on what I do with it.

Remember this about any debt (real estate, credit card, etc). You are paying someone else (interest paid) to manage you inability to pay the debt off. This is why many say you need to pay off your debts before investing in stuff like PMs.

Stocks/Bonds. This really goes towards people's emotional aspect of any investment. If it goes down they hold on to it. Why? I have a 7% rule .. if it hits 7% going down I sell. This preserves cash (there are some exceptions of course). Of course I've known people to buy stocks at $60 and ride it down to the mid 20s before selling. It makes absolutely no sense to me (emotions rule). But then, I've got stuck in similar scenarios although in shorter timeframes but far less loss. But, if your stocks/bond investments go kaput then one has to blame oneself for that.

You could say the same about PMs. Who's bought in 2011 and has held them hoping they'd recover?

To me, I buy designs. So I have many PMs in coins. I also have ASEs. I really don't plan on selling them with the minor swings you mention. If it happens to pop over $20 then sure, I may sell; the higher the better. But I didn't sell in 2011; but then my strategy was different than now. Back then PM had a section in my portfolio which I've changed my strategy now and PMs really don't fit but they're they are paid for and inventoried.

Some (non business) people do make money on it @Bman33 but they don't sell to the same places they buy. People will be all over the board on their strategy/reason for silver or gold or platinum (or palladium).

If you add your time and effort as a dollar based valuation, then is it worth it at all to buy/sell in your scenario? Of course, I assume you aren't tracking and paying taxes on your PM capital gains either which would put you even further in the hole.

What is the point of all of this?
Fun ?
Emotional Lift ?
Nice pretty things that make kewl sounds when you clang them together?
short/long profit?
portfolio? distribution?

Each and every one will have their own reasons for PMs. It just depends if it's profitable (either monetarily, or emotionally) for you.

 

Claw, you always try to find something positive to say in a negative environment...

 

speaking of which ....

• For investors .. maybe a good time to buy
• for stackers, a good time to buy
• for hoarders/preppers .. when is it *not* a good time to buy. I just hope the shipment gets to me before the zombies attack.
• for flippers .. good time to buy, if it goes back up quickly
• general buyers .. heck ya !!

SILVER


GOLD


platinum

 

Some people say Precious Metals is like burnt toast.


No one wins.
Unless you like burnt toast.

 

I used to love burnt toast, Now Not as much but still will leave in toaster to get crunchy!!

 

I hear burnt toast is helpful for an upset stomach. Maybe those who are bothered by how stackers spend their money should try some.

Personally I like burnt popcorn and fried cucumbers.

 

My only observation is this:went to coin club and a local show recently and 60% of people are leaving silver and selling and 40% of people are backing up the truck. Premiums are low and the outlook is very pessimistic. It’s a gamble. In 2008 Silver was $10 an ounce.

 

I don't think silver will get a price jump until some of the miners go out of business and reduce supply.

 

There are not many 'Silver miners' ( especially in US) whose main income in from silver. Most have silver profits as offset of expenses of extracting other precious metals or lead, zinc, etc. The US produces about 1,000 metric tons while Mexico produces about 5,000 MT a year.

And there are very few if any of these metal miners that are not protected for at least 2-3 years with balanced paper contracts ( yes, even the bullion miners uses paper contracts to survive the harsh business movements) so they can process silver , but not put it into the market except at a pre-set contract price. You can't go to the mine and ask to buy a kilo of silver @ market price.

 

It is very tempting with this latest drop. I would help drop my average down from when spot was $27.00 and I bought silver at $28.50 or so not a lot but I did buy 10 ounces in the 20's range. Heck I even bought a few canadian ouncers in the 35ish range.

 

$27 thru $35. Ouch

PMs, at least to me, aren’t as liquid and fast as heavily held stocks to buy/sell. But actually better than some stocks I’ve owned where it may take 5 days to sell/buy due to the very low activity. Lol

 

If we get down to $13.99 I am pulling the trigger on ten ounces. Or Lower of course.

 

well, the US Dollar index is going up


so let's see where Silver is headed


Edit: Yeah .. i remove stock part of the post. It got too long and cumbersome and info-mercialisish.

 

Maybe the mods can rename this thread: have you hugged your wall street info commercial today?