[Poll-23] #21 Ryro vs #28 Terence Cheesman (Round 2) CIT 2018

Hello everyone and welcome to Round 2 of the 2018 CoinTalk Imperator Tournament! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun in the master thread;

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an...annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/



A big thank you to all of our participants. Without further ado…

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#21 @Ryro


MACEDON. Thessalonica. Octavian with Divus Julius Caesar (27 BC-14 AD). Ae.
Obv: ΘEOΣ.
Wreathed head of Julius Caesar right; c/m on neck.
Rev: ΘEΣΣAΛONIKEΩN.
Bare head of Octavian right; Δ below.
Struck circa 28-27 BCE
RPC I 1554.
Weight: 12.3 g.
Diameter: 21 mm.

Price: $97.73

Why It's Cool:
Bargain: You can currently find a version of this coin (lacking the hard to come by countermark) on V-coins for $750.

History: With the murder of his defied uncle, Julius Caesar, Octavian Caesar, soon to be known as Augustus from 27 BCE onward, ran a mesmerizing propaganda campaign to both align himself with Julius in the eyes of the mob while also putting on a very believable show that he lacked his late uncle's desire for autocracy...all the while being a reigning autocrat!



His propaganda machine stretched far and wide. As this, delightfully near emerald patina'd, coin from Thessalonica in Macedon suggests. He was now in control of the mightiest empire the world would ever know, and he knew the power of rhetoric, hyperbole and coinage (himself a known collector).

This coin is rich with irony. The countermarks, which we'll dive more into momentarily, on all of these coins seem to be placed on the upper breast/neck of Caesar and nowhere else. Of the 23 stab wounds sustained by Caesar only the 2nd one to his upper breast/neck was fatal. Then when you flip to the reverse you see a rather elongated neck of his young nephew making for a pretty easy target for future would be assassins!



The countermark itself is up for debate. Though, the ligate NK monogram is
usually judged to be attributed to or a reference to Nero (Nerwn Kaisar).
The concern being that Thessalonica had abundant coinages issued under Claudius.
My other version of the coin is lacking any countermark, as Julius apparently in death no longer needed to wear that wreath to cover his bald spot.



As time went by Augustus had the wherewithal to distance himself from his uncle's legacy (and of even his own) and the less than patriotic acts that the "pater patriae" (father of his country) perpetrated during the civil war. Though none will ever be able to sum up the life and career of then Octavian better than his greatest rival, Marcus Antonius, whom said, "You boy, who owes EVERYTHING to a name."

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#28 @Terence Cheesman


Septimius Severus Ar Denarius Minted 203-210 A.D. most likely 206 A.D. RIC 259 Elkins 140
Rv Triumphal arch of Severus showing three arches and four columns
This is surmounted by a facing chariot drawn by six horses and is flanked by two horsemen both facing away from the main group.
Obv. SEVERVS PIVS AVG. Rv. COS III P.P.

Price: $4,000

Why It’s Cool:
Bargain: The price is at the upper end of these coins but so is the grade. This coin has both the obverse and reverse nice and crisp. This can be a problem with Severan coins as the reverse can be used rather longer than what would be ideal. I should note a dealer was interested in the coin and had agreed upon a price. The dealer promised to return later in the day. As I did not wish to be predatory I actually waited until the next morning to buy the coin at the same price quoted to the dealer.

History: The Arch of Severus was dedicated in 203 A.D. It celebrates the success of Severus in his war with Parthia. The panels on the arch depict events in that campaign including the capture of the city of Edessa, the surrender of Seleukia, and the siege and sack of the Parthian capital of Ctesiphon. It was here that his son Caracalla became co-emperor on the same day as the accession of Trajan one hundred years before. By this act as well as building the triumphal arch Severus was advertising his successes against the Parthians, something that eluded even Trajan. Architectural reverses are unusual during the Roman Empire and are often reserved for the large Aes coins. There are three more or less intact arches within Rome. The Arch of Titus, the Arch of Severus, and the Arch of Constantine I. Of the three only the Arch of Severus appears on the Roman Imperial coinage.

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A Gentle Reminder
Round 1 went about as well as anyone could have hoped from the perspective of keeping the commentary fun, interesting and friendly. It would be a challenge to run a tournament of this type on almost any other board but with the great people here on CT it has been both an honor and a pleasure. Lets try to keep up with the perfect score in the friendliness department by concentrating comments on why you liked an entry instead of why you didn't like the other.

Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the thread for comments, opinions, coin pile-ons and random posting of coin things as you see fit.

 

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Both terrific coins, a Julius Caesar portrait with and sensational history, and an impeccable beautifully detailed triumphal arch still standing in the forum today in which the history speaks for itself. Although the denarius looks expensive it is very hard to come by in such good condition so the market dictates this price.

 

What is that lump after SEVERVS?

While true, I have never understood why this is true. I would think builders of something like that would promote it. On the other hand, the rarity of this type makes one wonder if it was withdrawn or just released on the first day and not again. It is a nice coin.

On the other hand, Those Octavian/Caesar coins are usually found less well struck on one side or another. I wonder if you got a discount from some bidders considering a countermark to be damage. I most definitely would have paid that price for that coin.

The scary part is one of you will have to come up with an even better coin for the next round.

 

55-54! This one is a barn burner!!

 

It's tough to favor one over the other because they are so different. Breaking it down into categories and judging dispassionately helps a little bit. It's going to be a nail-biter though!

 

Tied at 68!! Is that what you're trying for again, @Ryro?

Anyway, I don't think we could have asked for a more exciting matchup. The Octavian and Divus Julius bronze is a great coin and awesome play to take on that eye-popping Septimius denarius with its wonderful architectural reverse.

Now, where's my popcorn?

 

Score Update
#21 @Ryro - 76
#28 @Terence Cheesman - 75

This is fun stuff! Epic Battle!!!!

 

Wow ! that's even !

Q

 

Hard to decide but that arch of Severus is really cool!

 

Not if I can help it! Haha. They say a tie is like kissing your cousin. Which I know plenty about. The tie part, not the kissing cousins thing...though I do live in Utah. So there's that

 

it's nose and nose ...

 

85 to 84... ummmmmm


... You crack me up @Ryro

 

...never gonna break the tie being banished to the dreaded...2nd page!!!

 

I sense a battle rap on the cards to break the impending tie...

 

We are currently separated by 2 votes with only an hour to go! Ryro 91 - 89 Terence.

This is your last chance to vote before this epic match closes for good!

 

Ryro, Ryro, he's our man. If he can't win it no one can.



This cute kitty wants you to vote Ryro. Are you going to make this poor Kitty sad by voting for the competition? Didn't think so.

 

Wow!! What an exciting match. Congrats, @Ryro. @Terence Cheesman, I look forward to more of your coins and articles.

 

A fantastic match that could have been swayed either way by the votes of even one person!!

Results
#21 @Ryro - 94 Winner
#28 @Terence Cheesman - 92

Terence takes the eye appeal with his stunning Severan denarius. Ryan takes the bargain category and both participants split the interest to equate to one of the closest matches we've seen yet! A sincere thank you to both players for the great fun

@Ryro will advance to Round 3 to take on @ancientcoinguru with a medal and a place on the winner's podium on the line.

 

Just speechless.
Beautiful coin @Terence Cheesman! A true honor to squeak by you.

 

Congrats @Ryro : where you are is the most exciting/tiring match up.
I'm thinking of giving a tip to @Curtisimo just to make sure I'm not against you in next year tournament

@Terence Cheesman, your coin is a true beauty by all means. something I wouldn't even dare having one day in my collection

Q