[Poll-2] #8 Bing vs #25 Roman Collector (Round 1) CIT 2018

Welcome to Round 1 of CIT 2018! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun on the following link:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an...annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/



I want to give a special thank you to the participants for volunteering to play the game. We have a great group of people here at CT.

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#8 @Bing


MARCUS ANTONIUS
AR Denarius
OBVERSE: ANT AVG III VIR R P C, Praetorian galley, thyrsos behind prow
REVERSE: CHORTIS SPECVLATORVM, three legionary standards
Patrae 32-31 BC
3.52g, 18.mm
Cr544/12; Syd 1214
ex. Marti Classical Numismatics

Pirce: $575

Why It’s Cool:
Although completely retired, I have a soft spot for this particular Legionary. In another lifetime, I was a DoD Counterintelligence Agent with the job of protecting US interests through Operational Security, much as Speculatores of old.

LEGIO COHORTIS SPECVLATORVM
A mounted cohort of scouts who were placed on an elevated part of Mark Antony's ships. This is in harmony with the Numiswiki entry:

"Speculator, derived from specula, a prospect that is to say a view from the summit of a place, whence anything may be seen advantageously at a distance. - Thus a cohort of this description (Speculatorum Cohors) was established by M. Anthony, that they, from an elevated part of his ships, might explore and act as sentries or watchmen. There were other acceptations of the word, such as spies and even executioners."

David Sear in his book "The History and Coinage of the Roman Imperators" says that ten "speculatores" were normally assigned to each legion but Antony actually formed a separate cohort of them to carry out his personal instructions. On Antony's coinage for the Speculatores the three standards are shown with two wreaths and a miniature depiction of the prow of a galley which refers to the specialized role as look outs on the ships. This look out or turret is a "specula" in latin.

After Actium Augustus incorperated the mounted Speculatores into the praetorian guard and charged them with the protecting of the Emperor's person.


Relief depecting the Battle of Actium between Augustus and Marcus Antonius (Flickr)

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#25 @Roman Collector


Nerva, AD 96-98
Roman AR denarius, 16 mm, 3.39 g
Rome, Oct-Dec AD 97
Obv: IMP NERVA CAES AVG P M TR P II COS III P P, laureate head right
Rev: IVSTITIA AVGVST: Justitia, draped, seated right on low backed chair, feet on stool, holding long straight scepter in right and branch extended in left
Refs: RIC 30; Cohen 103.

Price: $83

Why It’s Cool:
Why the coin was a bargain: It was a sleeper coin from a new auction firm holding its first auction. It was misidentified by the dealer as the much more common RIC-6. A minor-league auction with a coin misidentified as a run-of-the mill denarius of a rather uninteresting emperor.

What makes it interesting: This denarius of Nerva can be dated on the basis of its obverse inscription to October through December, AD 97, after he started his second tribunician power but before assuming his fourth consulship. You may read more about dating the three issues of Nerva with the IVSTITIA AVGVST reverse type here. From RIC:

There are few other examples to be found online or in the major collections. No examples are to be found at Wildwinds, coinproject.com, coin archives (free version), Online Coins of the Roman Empire (OCRE), Sear 5th ed., the British Museum collection, or CNG archives. None for sale at V-coins. It is attested by Cohen and is therefore in the Bibliotheque National in Paris.

I have only found three other examples on the web after an exhaustive search: Pegasi buy-or-bid sale 153, lot 350, February 27, 2018 for $425; Numismatica Ars Classica NAC AG Auction 100, lot 1835, May 29, 2017 for $280; Auktionshaus H. D. Rauch GmbH 10th eAuction, lot 305, July 14, 2011 for $169.

The Pegasi coin is an obverse and reverse die-match to mine:

But the Rauch and NAC coins were struck from different obverse and reverse dies from each other and from my coin, so there were at least three of each die used for the issue.

Why this one is a contender: It illustrates a brief period -- a few months at most -- in the titulature and history of Nerva. It's obviously scarce, if not rare. It was a bargain, obtained for a fraction of the cost of the three other examples sold since 1999.

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Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the floor to comments, pile-ons and shameless lobbying.

Also... have fun.

 

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Nice one Guys! Super coins to open with! I love the relative scarcity and history behind both coins!

Here is my Nerva (ex: Goiter removed by Empress @TIF )

RI Nerva AE Dupondius 96-98 CE LIBERTAS PVBLICA -pileus TIF

And, Anthony's tribute to Caesar's Tenth?

RImp Marc Antony 32-31 BCE AR Legio X Equestris - Caesar Denarius B bankers mark Eagle Galley Standards

 

We're just started and are already confronted to a tough choice !
Sure, I have a soft spot for Marcus Antonius and his legions, but that Nerva is a real steal !

We're all alone when it comes to important decisions in life, aren't we ?

Q

 

Another very interesting matchup!

Without saying how I spent my other two votes, I will say I voted for Bing for best bargain. I've recently gone through ACsearch checking prices and availability for Speculatorum denarii and did so again just now, plus I did the same for the Nerva denarius. I did not give any weight to the different obverse legends for the denarius. Perhaps that wasn't fair, but I was just going with the factors important to me and precise dating for an Imperial coin doesn't matter much to me unless there is some other well-known event which makes the date notable.

Even though in absolute terms RC's coin was less expensive, and at a glance you might think Bing's wasn't a bargain, in my opinion Bing did very well to pick up that sought after coin for $575.

To clarify, I did not remove his goiter. He came to me post-op .

 

Thanks @TIF. I've done the same research and come to the same conclusion. When I spent that large of a sum, I was nearly sick until I realized I did get a good deal in comparison. The same can be said for several of my MA Legionary denarii.

 

So true! The Speculatorum is a tough coin to find. I got mine relatively cheap but it was almost 20 years ago!

 

Jeez guys thanks a lot... now I want one Awesome coin @Bing and just dripping with historical interest

I am still a bit partial to @Roman Collector on the "Best bargain" though. I have been in the market for a nice Nerva with the distinctive schnauze for my Nerva-Commodus sub collection and so I can definitely appreciate his fine cherry pick!

 

I very much agree about @Bing 's price. I have looked at these a lot (stepping aside for Bing). Bing got it at a KILLER COST! Well done on that part!

Mine is just a Sweet XVI - and never been kissed:

RImp Marc Antony Legio XVI AR Den 18mm 3.4g Mil mint 32-31 BCE Praetorian Galley Aquila 2 Stds Cr 544-31 RSC 48

 

LOL

Q

 

Go on, do it, @Alegandron ! Why do you think it's not in a slab?!

 

How's this for a schnauze?


IMP NERVA CAES AVG PM TR P COS III P P
Head of Nerva right

CONCORDIA EXERCITVVM
clasped right hands

Rome January-September 97 A.D.

3.51g

Sear 3020, RIC 14, RSC 20

Ex-Forum

 

And you can tell us "how come they taste so good, just like a young girl should"

Q

 

These coins go well together. Compared to most, Bing's example has more of the significant legend. Roman Collector's coin has everything going for it except the word NERVA. When voting, whether here or with our cash when buying coins, we have to ask just how much extra do we pay for that legend. There is no doubt both coins are correctly IDed. I would be happy to have Jay's coin which lacks all of the word Speculatorum but agree with TIF that Bing's coin is special and more special for every bold letter. if RC's coin were off center the opposite way and lost that date, the coin would be worth very little. Both are decent coins with faults. It will be interesting to see which CT prefers.

 

Cool! That is RIC 18, Cohen 101 with the IMP NERVA CAES AVG P M TR P COS III P P legend.

For the sake of completeness, here's RIC 6, Cohen 99 with the IMP NERVA CAES AVG P M TR P COS II P P legend:

 

ROFLMAO!!!

 

I feel Bing’s pain at having to pay that much for highly sought-after coin, but despite costing almost 7 times as much as the Nerva, that Speculatores really was a downright bargain.

At the same time, I’m totally envious of RC’s score too. If one had to own only one coin of Nerva, that would be a very fine and special example to own.

 

WOW BING ON STEROIDS !

Both great coins but Bing's Galley is one of the best I have seen, and for only $83 a scarce Nerva is real value for money. Fantastic start to the tournament guys.

 

Bing's coin is fabulous, and a pretty good deal for the price, could have gone for much higher.

 

Pwnage on both sides!

Erin