[Game] World Coins Time Machine… Counting Backward by Year! (Plus Prize Coin)

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Curtisimo, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    If everybody's ready for 1788, I have a piece with that date on it, though in this case it's a "sham" 1788.

    It's an imitation "Spade" guinea gaming counter from the early 19th century. Loosely imitates the full-guinea version of the coin I posted above in Post #1991.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Siberian Man

    Siberian Man Senior Member

  4. yarm

    yarm Junior Member Supporter

    Temple of Music medal and Birmingham Workhouse halfcrown.

    BHM 293 1788.jpg 1788.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  5. Jimski

    Jimski Well-Known Member

    1788 Massachusetts cent, variety Ryder 12-M, R1 very common.
    Massachusetts cent 1788 obv.jpg Massachusetts cent 1788 rev.jpg
    During the post-independence / pre-constitution period of the United States, the Articles of Confederation era, some states assumed responsibility for the minting of coinage.

    The state of Massachusetts struck cents and half cents in 1787 and 1788. Massachusetts had the only state owned mint. Other states utilized private mints to strike their authorized coinage. Massachusetts expected the mint to be profitable, but it lost money. The mint was shut down in January 1789. Massachusetts was in negotiations with private mints to further manufacture the coinage, but this was abandoned in February 1789 because the newly adopted Constitution specified that the federal government would be responsible for the minting of coinage.

    The seal of Massachusetts is on the obverse.
     
  6. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

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    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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  7. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Lovely. Some might fuss because I started 1788 this morning and we didn't allow a whole day for it, but I'm ready.

    With ... one of my detector finds!

    Can you imagine what a sheer adrenaline rush it was to dig this one morning? I had found a holed 1776 Spanish Mexico half-real like this just the night before, only a few feet from where this one turned up, first thing the next morning.

    That 1776 had been my very first detector coin find from the 1700s. I was utterly stoked, and that was such an amazing site. Someone else had found a $5 gold piece there years earlier.

    That was 22 years ago. I drove by that site again today. Wish it wasn't closed to detecting now, or I'd be out there right now, bad knees or not.

    1787halfreal.jpg

    PS- @paddyman98 - you might find this interesting, bein' a digger and all. Do you ever find old stuff like this? There's more of it in the ground in your neck o' the woods than mine!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  8. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    PS- @Jimski - I love that Massachusetts cent. A "common" variety with nice surfaces and good eye appeal like that is exactly the sort of thing I'd look for, if I was shopping for one of those.

    Let me know if you ever want to turn loose of that one. ;)
     
  9. Jimski

    Jimski Well-Known Member

    Thanks @lordmarcovan ... it's a keeper though.
     
  10. dirty_brian

    dirty_brian Supporter! Supporter

    I'm still at 1788. not everyone is on standard US time around here.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. coin_nut

    coin_nut Well-Known Member

    Yes, different time zone, here are some of my 1788s, beat up old Dutch coins 1788 U 1 d obv.JPG 1788 U 1 d rev.JPG 1788 WF VOC 1 d obv.JPG 1788 WF VOC 1 d rev.JPG 1788 Z VOC 1 d obv.JPG 1788 Z VOC 1 d rev.JPG 1788 H 2 s obv.JPG 1788 H 2 s rev.JPG
     
  12. Siberian Man

    Siberian Man Senior Member

  13. Siberian Man

    Siberian Man Senior Member

    City of Gorizia.
    1788.
    147.jpg 148.jpg
     
  14. Jimski

    Jimski Well-Known Member

    It's time for 1787.

    Three coins from the post-colonial, pre-Constitution USA period that are attributed to the renowned American contemporary counterfeiter Machin’s Mills:

    The following is from an important paper regarding what is commonly known as “Machin’s Mills” coinage.

    From: James Atlee’s Imitation British Halfpence; Gary A. Trudgen, The Colonial Newsletter March 1987:

    The British halfpence was the most heavily counterfeited coin in the eighteenth century. Most of the counterfeiting was done in England, however, a small amount was also done in America. The majority of the American-made halfpence, as attributed by Robert Vlack in 1974, have been routinely credited to Thomas Machin's "Manufactory of Hardware" {commonly Machin’s Mills}. This includes all the varieties that are dated 1747, 1771, 1772, 1774,1775, 1776, 1778, 1787 and 1788. In this article I intend to show that these imitation halfpence are indeed the product of James F. Atlee, Thomas Machin's partner and die engraver, however, all of the varieties were NOT struck at Machin's Mills. …


    Trudgen indicates that Machin’s Mills minted British halfpence are limited to those dated 1778, 1787 and 1788. The 1778 halfpence were predated, and were likely struck in 1788. Halfpence dated 1776 and earlier and some coins dated 1787 were struck with Atlee dies produced prior to his work at Machin’s Mills.

    Regarding the identification of Atlee’s imitation British halfpence (commonly Machin’s Mills’) coinage, folks talk about triangular dentils and pursed lips (neither of which is sufficient). I’ll add a third criteria, the coins must possess a marvelously ugly representation of George III (I'm not the first to suggest this).

    1787 imitation British halfpenny, attributed to Machin’s Mills, type Vlack 21 II 87D II, R4 very scarce.
    Machin's Mills halfpenny 1787 obv.jpg Machin's Mills halfpenny 1787 rev.jpg

    1778 Imitation British halfpence, attributed to Machin’s Mills, Vlack 11-78A, R3 scarce. The coin was likely struck in 1788, and was predated for some reason.
    Machin's Mills halfpenny 1778 obv.jpg Machin's Mills halfpenny 1778 rev.jpg
    This is the only Vlack 11-78A that I have found (to date) with the cud at 2:00 on the obverse. I believe the porous streaking is due to planchet quality. The coin is bent which has spared it from a life confined to a slab (fortunate for me).

    1788 Counterfeit Connecticut copper, attributed to Machine’s Mills, type Miller 7-E, R5 rare.
    Connecticut copper 1788 obv.jpg Connecticut copper 1788 rev.jpg
    From The Coins of Colonial and Early America, Louis Jordan, University of Notre Dame, Department of Special Collections. https://coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinIntros/CT-Copper.intro.html

    … it is now thought all 1788 dated Connecticut copper derive from Machin's Mills.


    Liberty’s shield on the Connecticut Copper series’ reverse features the 3 grape vines of the Connecticut coat of arms rather than the British Union Jack.
    Connecticut coat of arms.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  15. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Repost of my detector find from Post #2006.

    I might have other 1787s. I'll have to check.

    1787halfreal.jpg
     
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  16. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Two 1787 British coins from my old "Holey Coin Vest" collection. The latter was gilded at one time, though it's hard to tell that in the photos. Did someone try to pass it off in commerce as a gold piece, or was that just a jewelry thing? I don't know.

    HCV-GrBrit-1s-1787.jpg HCV-GrBrit-6d-1787-gilt.jpg
     
  17. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Neat detail about the grapevine heraldry on those CT coppers. I wasn't aware of that. The only ones I have owned were in such low grade you'd never have seen it on them anyway.
     
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  18. Jimski

    Jimski Well-Known Member

    It was the shield heraldry that attracted me to this coin. I was looking specifically for one with the shield detail. As you mentioned the majority do not show this detail, I suspect by lack of design detail or poor strike. This coin was auctioned on ebay without attribution. I determined it's attribution before I bid, and was most delighted that it wasn't the typical commons that I usually can afford.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  19. Jimski

    Jimski Well-Known Member

    1787 Fugio copper, Newman 9-P, R4 very scarce

    The first coins authorized by the United States.
    Fugio copper 1787 obv.jpg Fugio copper 1787 rev.jpg
    Struck at a private mint. The business deal did not go well. Possible motivation for the United States establishing its own mint 5 years later.

    From The Coins of Colonial and Early America, Louis Jordan, University of Notre Dame, Department of Special Collections. https://coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinIntros/Fugio.intro.html

    Rival petitions to produce the coppers were received from Matthias Ogden of New Jersey and James Jarvis, who had purchased controlling interest in the Connecticut enterprise {franchise}, The Company for Coining Coppers. The contract was awarded to Jarvis … Jarvis was required to produce some three hundred tons of Fugio cents. He was able to obtain about thirty tons of copper from the government to begin coining with the proviso he would pay the government for the copper through his coining operation. Jarvis had Abel Buell make the Fugio dies. He then put his father-in-law, Samuel Broome, in charge of the minting operations and went to Europe in search of copper and assistance. Jarvis sought the assistance of Matthew Boulton, owner of the Soho Mint in Birmingham, and others, but without cash up front, Jarvis was unsuccessful. Meanwhile, Broome used much of the federal copper to mint about three and a half million 1787 Connecticut coppers, which were lighter in weight and thus more profitable than the Fugio's. In the end Broome made only about 400,000 Fugio cents (about four tons out of the 300 tons of coppers they had been contracted to produce) which were sent to the U.S. Treasury on May 21, 1788. That so few coins had been minted and that those coins were slightly underweight concerned the Congress, but that no payment had been made on the thirty tons of copper the federal government had delivered to Jarvis led the Congress to void his contract on September 16, 1788. This was followed by a congressional report on September 30, 1788 stating Jarvis had received a large quantity of federal copper but had only paid for a small portion and that "the Board of Treasury will take effectual measures to recover [the remainder] as soon as possible."

    Thomas Machin then bought Jarvis's equipment, and Broome joined Jarvis in Europe. The diemaker Abel Buell gave his equipment to his son Benjamin and also fled the country.
     
  20. coin_nut

    coin_nut Well-Known Member

    1787, Ceylon VOC Colombo 1 stuiver "dump", Gelderland duit and Holland 2 stuiver 1787 Ceylon 1 s obv.JPG 1787 Ceylon 1 s rev.JPG 1787 G VOC 1 d obv.JPG 1787 G VOC 1 d rev.JPG 1787 H 2 s obv.JPG 1787 H 2 s rev.JPG
     
  21. coin_nut

    coin_nut Well-Known Member

    More 1787, duits from Holland and Utrecht, and 1 keping from East India Company 1787 H VOC 1 d obv.JPG 1787 H VOC 1 d rev.JPG 1787 U VOC 1 d obv.JPG 1787 U VOC 1 d rev.JPG 1787 VEIC 1 k obv.JPG 1787 VEIC 1 k rev.JPG
     
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