I read this reply concerning Indian $2 1/2 & $5 counterfeits on another forum tonight: "The counterfeits made in the late 1970s/early 1980s were usually of full weight and proper composition. [By the mid-80's this was mostly true] Many were apparently made from gold obtained by melting down genuine $10 & $20 gold coins. [LOL, whomever made this story up deserves one of those Pulitzer Prizes the lying media got] Look for casting bubbles on the surfaces. These were well made counterfeits ..." Folks, I can count on one hand the number of CAST COUNTERFEIT gold Indian coins I've ever seen! However, this myth was started in the 60's and 70's because one famous authenticator at the time was telling everyone that the earliest die struck coins in the market were casts - IN ERROR. I can't post there but thankfully someone wrote that any deceptive C/F's were die struck. AFAIK, educated people don't believe everything they read (including this). They learn to check things out for themselves.
@Insider, It occurred to me after posting that the statement, "Look for casting bubbles on the surfaces" might have been misinterpreted by both you and I, and possibly by others as well. It's not only possible, but plausible that gas pockets might be exposed at the surface of a coin struck on a blank made from a cast billet that had not been degassed. Therefore, I am backing away from the notion that the writer of the above statement is necessarily uneducated.
Is there something peculiar or specific to "cast counterfeits" different than regular counterfeits ? I thought there were lots of sub-1 ounce pre-1933 gold coins that WERE in fact counterfeit...not sure about this "cast" thing but maybe someone can clear this up for me ?
The writer of the piece is definitely EDUCATED, he is just providing misinformation to members who know less than he does. My use of "educated " refers to anyone who knows it is best to read everything and then seek out the "truth." IMO, a 5 Star multi-thousand posts member should have known better. Many Cast coins do have either raised round bubble like lumps or tiny smooth round craters. That's exactly what he was claiming to see on fake Indians. In any case, none of them should be remotely deceptive to any one who has ever looked at a few genuine coins. As for you post: I can't recall ever seeing a trapped gas lump on a gold Indian. Furthermore, I can count on maybe two fingers the number of attached laminations I've seen on gold Indians. Trapped gas is one of the lesser causes of laminations. A torch can mess up gold but it tends to melt rather than bubble up. Anyway, my main disagreement is the fact that since the 1970's ANY US gold coin of any denomination that was a decent fake was die struck.
I'm somewhat ignorant on this topic. But I always got the impression that cast counterfeits were mainly found among ancients.
You are correct. The number of fakes that were produced in all the series probably outnumbers the number of genuine coins made. AGAIN: This "cast thing" was started in the 60's and 70's because one famous authenticator (I called him "Old Cracked Eye) at the time was telling everyone that everything - including lots of genuine coins - were cast fakes. Nevertheless, in spite of his ignorance, the hobby and the ANA owes a lot to him as one of the pioneers.
You call everything fake, it's like being the proverbial broken clock; you'll be right twice a day. It hurts one's reputation more to call something fake real, than something real fake.
