German States (Saxony, Albertinian line): 1564-HB silver thaler of Augustus, Elector of Saxony

German States (Saxony, Albertinian line): 1564-HB silver thaler of Augustus, Elector of Saxony

NGC XF details (cleaned). Cert. #2183137-001.

Numista-53745, Davenport-9795.

Ex-Andy Mirski, at Table 553 at the 2026 FUN convention, Orlando, Florida, 10 January 2026. Purchased raw.

This handsome large silver thaler was struck under the authority of Augustus, Elector of Saxony, who was one of the rulers of the Albertinian Line under the powerful Habsburg Dynasty. The thaler is the ancestor of the world's subsequent large silver coins, and it is from "thaler" (taler) that the word "dollar" had its origins.

I have long liked this particular type, with the ruler in profile holding a sword over his right shoulder and a mace in his left hand. It is a very martial design. The intricate coats of arms on coins of this era are also interesting. I liked the eye appeal of this particular example. It has light toning and a slightly doubled strike.

Before buying it, I examined the edge closely for any traces of removed jewelry mounts, as that is an issue with so many old thaler coins, and I was wary of receiving a "details" grade from NGC after submitting it to them at the show. As it came to pass, that wasn't the problem. NGC indeed gave it a "details" grade, but for cleaning rather than mount removal.

I was disappointed. It should come as no surprise that a coin more than 460 years old got cleaned once upon a time. What disappointed me was that NGC did not deem this light cleaning to be "market acceptable" and give the coin a straight grade. (I've seen worse in straight-graded holders.) This presented me with a dilemma. I generally avoid "details" graded coins in my collection. But I like this one enough that I'm making an exception for it.



061300

 

Thanks. I rank your opinion very highly on stuff like this.

It is tempting to crack out and resubmit (maybe to PCGS), but I've already sunk full retail plus costly slab fees into this one, so further slabbing isn't really cost-effective. Unless I decide I just want to give it another go, and resign myself to ending up "underwater" on it. But there's no guarantee I'd get a straight grade on the second try. So... hmmm.

 

There’s an absolutely fabulous example of the exact same phenomenon: 400 years old, attractively toned, and a non-harsh cleaning that should have been deemed “market acceptable” and straight-graded by the TPG.

As to shipwreck coins, I would make an exception to my “straight grade only/no details” rule for those or for coins pedigreed to a known buried hoard. So far all my shipwreck and treasure coins happen to be straight-graded, but I wouldn’t look askance at a “sea salvaged” notation on a cool shipwreck piece.

I’m already accepting of NGC’s small italic notes on ancients (“lt. smoothing”, “wrinkled”, etc.).

Perhaps I’ll only apply the straight grade rule to more modern milled coins, and be more forgiving for the pre-1601 material. For so much of what I collect there, the technical grade is almost meaningless anyway. It’s all about the eye appeal.

 

That’s a cool pinback. A good example of how jewelry mounts (though usually not pinbacks like that) were common on old thalers. Pinbacks are quite often seen on larger silver coins of the mid-19th century, like that one.

 

On a 462-year-old thaler, I would imagine that most of them were cleaned at some point. Much as it is with ancient coins. It’s not so much a question of whether or not they were cleaned, but rather a matter of degree- what is “market acceptable” and worthy of a straight grade, and what is not (harsh cleaning, mechanical polishing, etc.)

This piece falls into the former category, in my opinion. Unfortunately NGC did not agree this time.

 

The last time I submitted a thaler to NGC, just a couple of years ago, I was nervous that they might “details” grade this one, for the little “divot” in front of the guy’s face. But no, they gave it a straight XF. That little depression was evidently a planchet flaw or strikethrough, not a hit.

Maybe I shouldn’t have sold this one. I let a fella talk me out of it. Then, finding myself thaler-less, I recently bought the coin above to replace it.