1893 S Morgan - Real or Fake

Do you know the die pairs for a 1894P? I may be sending you another batch. I've already sent you a couple of submissions. Thanks Jack for any reply. Edit..........I'm sorry, I thought you were John from VSS. My bad. "very embarrassed"

 

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Doesn’t look right to me either. Especially with the story from the seller.

 

That story about ICG is a bunch of hogwash. The seller would probably have gotten stronger bids in any reputable TPG's Genuine holder. My hunch is that it's an added mint mark.

 

OMG, did you actually spend $3755.00 on this?

 

Uh oh.

 

The 1893-S “dollar” in the OP is not good. The position the “1” in the date is not in the right spot relative to the dentles. A second marker is a die break through the “T” in “Liberty” which runs extensively through the bust. You need a 10x glass to see it

 

These are the pick-up points for a genuine 1893-S:

 

I have posted this on my FB Counterfeit Education Group "Fun with Fakes" as another Bay example.

 

Thanks Jack.
I'll change my decision, well because I don't know diddly about Morgan's
I vote the OP send this one back and have the seller get it authenticated.
We can all patiently wait for the results

 

A seller can get any negative or neutral feedback removed if eBay sees that they've offered a refund.

Never forget our old friends aboncom:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/abon-coins-busted-must-read.249371/

Or THR, doing business on eBay as coinsantiques.<number> and buyselltrade.<number>:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/thr-associates.205515/

I'd consider the possibility that this was an honest dealer making an honest mistake -- but not in light of that "I showed it to ICG" story.

 

Hey everyone, thanks for all the great feedback. I did take it to another coin dealer/buyer store last night and at first they said the Silver content was right and the weight was right and seemed to think it was real but when I offered the rest of the story they attempted to analyze the metal content with a different machine and that machine couldn't read it. The gentlemen did recommend taking it to a coin show which I may do this weekend. I also asked the seller if they would extend the 30 day return policy or be willing to get it graded. We'll see what they say.

 

I don't know if you are familiar with @Jack D. Young above. Probably the foremost expert on counterfeit coins and his work is routinely published in all the coin rags.... Sadly, he helped me a year back with a spike chin half cent that was so doggonned good that it almost fooled him too..... At any rate, Jack is the last word on counterfeits. Hands down.

 

This. (Or if not the last word, certainly a last word.)

Weird readings from an XRF machine? Maybe the owner doesn't know how to use it for good accuracy. Looks weird? I've seen lots of genuine coins that look weird.

Jack points out precise features that are present on all genuine examples, but missing on this one? Well, Jack might have it wrong -- but I wouldn't bet against him with my money, or yours.

 

Here what I said to the seller and his response:

Me:Thanks for getting right back to me. I took the coin to another dealer last night to get a second opinion. At first they said the Silver content was right and the weight was right so seemed to be saying it way good. When I shared more details and what the other test showed they tried a second machine to test metal content and couldn't get a reading. Again they were not willing to confirm authenticity. I think the only way I'd be 100% satisfied would be to get it authenticated by one of the professional grading companies but might not have time. Would you extend the 30 day return policy or be willing to get it graded?

Seller:Hello- I wanted to tell you the XRF machine the first dealer used is for jewelry and not coins. The sigma is the best machine out there for coins. It's up to you if you want to get it graded but I sold it raw to move it out to buy the next coins. I didn't want to wait for PCGS they have been taking so long. Its a great coin, not high grade by any means but a good example of a 1893 s .. my system is set up for 30 day returns so its 100% up to you what you would like to do..

 

No need to be an "expert" just willing to understand correct die varieties which can easily be found on the internet, like VAMWorld, PCGS, etc. But, like getting something for nothing, hope springs eternal. Maybe you have an unknown variety struck from unknown dies without the correct die markers or mintmark placement of documented genuine 1893-S Morgans.

I am curious about the seller's statement "XRF machine the first dealer used is for jewelry and not coins"? I paid to have many deceptive counterfeit early copper "coins" XRF analyzed along with genuine ones (as control samples) at a PA testing facility- XRF machines analyze metal content and don't care what the subject is. My local coin shop uses theirs to check coins, jewelry and plated items for value. One does have to know how to operate the equipment though.

I notified the seller it is bad but no response, as well as eBay but that doesn't matter; had I still had my direct reporting with the Bay I would have had it removed...

 

@Gdobie I have an offer- send it to me and I will personally have it analyzed for correct metal AND expedite a look-see for authenticity with Skip at IGC. You expedite it to me, I will expedite it through the process at no cost to you and get it back in time to return it in your 30 day window.

 

Send it back while you can. Don't FAFO with it, or you're likely to FO the hard way. (That's losing lots of money)

 

That's a fantastic offer and very kind!

 

@Gdobie …… Take Jack up on his offer!

 

Hey Jack, thanks for the feedback, I did spend $3755, I know, I'm probably a sucker but I've been searching for one for two years trying to complete my album. Another red flag I just thought of is that the auction only lasted 24hours. I'd hate to send it back if there's a chance it's real but $3755 is a lot to gamble with so many questionable issues.