2017 Silver(!) Krugerrand

Guess you will know this, but Namibia ceased to be "German SWA" more than 100 years ago.

In WW1 the British and South Africans took over, then it became a League of Nations mandate, and later it was a de facto part of South Africa. And while German East Africa (DOA) had its "own" coins until the end of the colony in 1918, South West Africa never had any until the country actually became independent ...

One interesting connection though is the designer of the Krugerrand: The piece was designed by the Berlin engraver Otto Schultz. That is also why some special editions show the Berlin Bear or the OS initials.

Christian

 

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Delayed! Dang it, I was looking forward to picking up a few of these...

 

While it may have been a long time since Namibia ceased to be "German Southwest Africa" that is not evident when visiting. For the last seven years I have been going there once or twice a year. Due to there being no airport big enough to accommodate the large planes that come in from the U.S. I always have to arrive and depart via South Africa.
The German influence is strong in Namibia and is evident everywhere. The streets are mostly German names and there is only one kind of restaurant there: German. I'm not a fan of German cuisine but that is really the only option other than a very few african dishes or just having a regular breakfast for every meal. The official language of Namibia is English but it is the rule that everyone knows at least two if not three languages, English, Afrikaans, and German. The only non-natives that I have met there are either South African or German.
It seems that Germany still feels they owe a debt as they have lots of charities and public assitance programs. The Germans have lots of businesses in Namibia (mostly metal mines and quarries). You can't help but to notice this as every day's paper mentions them. My comment was pretty accurate about it being formerly 'German Southwest Africa' and why the Krugerrand was being featured in the money fair at the German venue.

 

Ah, that makes more sense. The German Empire (Deutsches Reich) lost its colonies including "Deutsch-Südwest" during, or as a result of, the First World War. But it may well be that, even though the two biggest newspapers in Namibia are in English, German is still spoken a lot. I have obviously never been there.

As for why South Africa will be the guest of honor at the next World Money Fair, well, the WMF has one every year. Last year it was Australia, this year they had South Korea. But there are dozens of mints at the World Money Fair anyway, and for me as a mere visitor there is hardly any difference between the special guest and the others. I will be in Berlin and at the WMF in February, and will definitely have a look at the silver Krugerrand. Depending on my budget, and how much will be left of it then , I may also buy one ...

Christian

 

I wish I lived close enough to go without having to spend too much money!!


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Yeah, it definitely is a big thing. The website refers to the WMF as "the world's largest coin fair" - not sure whether that is based on the number of visitors or some other criteria. From around here (Rhine Valley) the trip and the stay are "doable" without spending a fortune on air/rail tickets. Sometimes a participating mint will have special WMF offers; will see whether that applies to the krugerrand too.

Christian

 

Christian,
Maybe you could ask them in person if they plan on making the silver Krugerrand every year? All the articles say "maybe" but I did see a comment in a comment section where someone replied that they worked with the South African Mints vendor and that he was told it was a one time deal.

 

Do you plan on presales of all varieties ?

 

Do you plan on presales of all varieties ? Edit, Sorry, double posted. Slow pc.

 

The American Eagle program is supposedly guaranteed to be produced from only American precious metals, for whomever is curious. It's not a big deal imo.

 

Guess the last word has not been spoken yet. Like you, I have read (so far) that the SA Mint will issue the 2017 limited edition - 1 million, plus 15,000 proof. After that, Rand Refinery will continue with a "regular" silver version for the bullion investment market. But I have not heard or read any official statement, so yes, it will be interesting to find out what the plans are ...

Christian

 

Anyone see that the 1 oz Proof Gold version is available?

The price tag tough....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-S-Afri...576861?hash=item1ebd19649d:g:iyQAAOSwB09YQYfO


I'm waiting on the silver proof...hopefully that one is under $150...

 

https://www.emk.com/en-us/silver/krugerrand-1-oz-iksud11720?returnurl=/en-us/silver/#iksud11720

I bought some coins from this dealer at the ANA show in Anaheim earlier this year. I wonder how they have coins for sale if the release was delayed. Or was it just delayed in the US?

 

I believe a certain amount went out to distributors and then it was noticed that there were quality issues. That was what stopped the rest of the shipments from going out. So, the dealers that received their coins are now in prime position to set the market price.

Here is a thread on Silver Stackers where someone received a coin. They also posted the following:

"On one of the german dealers site is says
ISSUE DELIVERED -
THROUGH QUALITY PROBLEMS RECALL AND DELIVERY STOP
BY SOUTH AFRICAN MINT - REPRODUCTION IN THE MINT"

-Last edited by Razz (2016-12-03 15:31:50)

http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...-available-in-silver-and-platinum-page-2.html

 

The South African Mint (SAM) has the coin up to be ordered (or at least they did) for some time now. I think that anyone in SA could just order one. I'll have to check with my buddy over there to see if he has mine in hand yet. I just don't want to bug him but I'll try to find out tomorrow.
Modern Coin Mart says the coins were damaged in transit. That just doesn't sound right? The link: https://www.moderncoinmart.com/silver-krugerrand/
There is a full letter on that page from the mint. I just don't see how there was this problem unless they were all in tubes and weren't packed tight so that they could jump up and down and get scuffed. Hopefully that is it and not just that they were bad quality.
I'm skeptical of MCM's deal because they are selling them for $39.95 which is BELOW the mints price of $43 BEFORE international shipping. So how can they do that profitably? Maybe the same way big dealers do: buy a huge batch, send them for grading, then sell the culls below cost to get rid of them.
I hope I am not right but that's the math.
Sure, in addition to the couple from my friend that is visiting from Joburg, I'll buy a couple from MCM. I know in advance it's not going to be a gradeable coin though. What do you guys think? AMIRITE?

 

At least we see that what MCM said doesn't jibe with what SAM says. MCM said it was a "production delay" which is not anything like "damaged in transit". It appears they had these damaged coins in hand when they posted about the production delay - I suppose they didn't want to say the wrong thing until gauging the response from the mint. In my opinion, they should have said something -anything - other than being untruthful.

Edited to add: Looking at the link to silver stackers where they posted the message from a German dealer : It seems he was told there was quality problems and they were going to reproduce the coins. That would seem to indicate that maybe SAM is just trying to blame their poor quality on packing/shipping problems when actually the coins arrived in the condition they were shipped: poor. Or it could be they just poorly packed them to everywhere they were shipped? I know that some mints ship tubes of coins that are not packed tightly which would allow the coins to jump up and down with every bump.

Even so, MCM wasn't on the level with their December 2 statement.

 

My guess is that the coin doesn't cost anywhere near that much to produce. The US Mint and various other mints sell their silver bullion costs for around $2 over spot to distributors. I would be shocked if it cost the South African mint more than $22-$25 to produce each coin and they can sell them to MCM in bulk for $25-$30. That leaves plenty of room for MCM to resell at $40 (and more for the coveted 70 grade). Nothing wrong with any of this, it's just smart business.

The thing that has me disappointed is that this was marketed as a "premium" coin. How is a $40 coin not packaged carefully? At that price I would expect each coin would be in a capsule (Perth Mint does this with most of their bullion options and those are priced well below $40).

Hopefully this gaffe will make the SA Mint improve their packaging and quality control. Plus no milk spots please!

 

I doubt that the South African mint is selling it any cheaper to MCM than what they do the public. I could go along with your theory very easily but this is not a bullion coin. This is a "premium uncirculated" which is on par with the burnished eagle that the US mint charges almost the exact same price for ($43/$45). I'm betting MCM had to pay almost the full $43 per coin and may have gotten 10% off at most. The SAM website says that they come in tubes of 25 or "in a blue pouch". That seems to mean they are treating it only just a little better than a cheap bullion coin, similar to how the US treats bullion coins (the US puts them in tubes and doesn't sell singles at all). SAM usually packages the proofs and even the lessor non-proof issues very well by putting them in both a capsule and a plastic box as well. Judging by the SAM's letter, they didn't have them individually capsuled/boxed when they shipped them to MCM. I searched around and saw pictures of the special pouch the coins come in and I just got the feeling that it wasn't going to be in a capsule because otherwise why bother with a pouch? Judging from SAM's letter and what the German dealer was quoted as saying on the link to the silver stacker's forum, it seems like they are going to restrike coins to go to the dealers that have made big orders and to me that's pretty surprising. I would like to have been a fly on the wall at MCM when they alerted SAM to the condition the coins were in on arrival.
The bright side is that if SAM restrikes these for MCM, we might be able to buy a graded 70 for a reasonable price of $70 or so, similar to what they sell the burnished eagle for in that grade.

 

It seems that the South African Mint has pulled the silver Krugerrand off their website. Before they had it on there as " A premium uncirculated coin in a blue pouch" for ZAR600 (600 Rand or $43 US dollars) or for a tube of 25 for ZAR15000 - with no price break for getting a quantity.
Now the silver is not listed and the only thing offered is the 1967 with 50th privy Gold coin.

 

they'll probably have the Franklin Mint make them for you guys.