Speaking of suspicious coins

I'm going to out myself - I sold this coin to Mr. Sallent. He posted it in this thread. I did not catch the seam, or it would never have been put up for auction - sometimes one slips through the cracks. I thought the style looked good and the weight is good, but the surfaces are nicked up - perhaps from cleaning? At any rate, I've refunded his money and the coin is on its way back to me. It may not be a fake, but I'll show it to a few big boys at the Baltimore show and see what they have to say. Always better safe than sorry.

 

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Curiosity is what killed the cat, but which coin is it?

 

The Titus.

 

I'm not taking the bait. Thank you, come again!

 

Ooh, that's the one I was bidding on against @Sallent. I knew there was a reason I wanted @Sallent to have it.

Seriously, I hope it turns out to by ok.

 

No denarii on the type on fake reports, would think David Atherton, would have noted something off too.

 

I was actually interested in an answer - not so much to get anyone worked up - I just don't know.

 

If you have someone on the ignore list then you won't see their posts. Ken was addressing Insider.

 

Aha! I can see said the blind man.

 

I dont know how the ignore function works exactly but I assumed it would include my quotes (even if from an ignored individual which would give some context for my response). As a dealer I have many photos on file, but honestly I dont have the edges photographed. I assume few if any do. But it is a known quantity, and measurable. Anyone who has some experience and a certain number (no, I dont know what that number might be) of coins knows that casting seams from blank planchets are quite common. Is that the case with this coin? I dont know. I have seen the original photo, I cant tell.

 

Style is OK. So, likely a cast of a genuine coin. JA is right, its surfaces mask the casting clues very well.

 

Sorry you consider a request for numismatic education "bait." I have an open mind and although your post that seams are on many genuine coins is true, I wish to see one on an ancient. That's all. No bait. Just curious, because any decent ancient fake made in several decades that I have seen is struck. Furthermore, I've NEVER seen a genuine ancient with a seam because as I was told long ago: "the planchets were not made in moulds." Your contention plus a chance to see something new had me very excited.

I'm trying very hard to be a "model" poster. I've spent twenty minutes changing this post from my first draft so as not to upset anyone. Your "snarky" reply makes me sad. I guess you feel I deserve it for my previous infractions.

Perhaps, one of the ancient experts here can show me an example that backs up your post. It could be something only seen on one type or from one region. I should regard that as very important information for TPGS authenticators.

 

Cast?

 

Not Roman, but there have been others that have been posted here before.

Recent Judaean Aquisitions

 

@FitzNigel THANK YOU, now we are communicating as adults.

The two GENUINE coins in the thread you provided are definitely CAST. I'll look for an edge seam on an example at the next big show I attend. However, my original question had to do with a casting seam on a genuine SILVER ancient coin. Anyone have one? @Ken Dorney?

 

Well, now that the coin has been disclosed I'll add some more food for thought. It wasn't just the casting seam alone that worried me, but that in combination with two bumps on
Titus's face and also the weird V on the obverse which reminded me of the casting remains on the T in @stevex6 's fake Caligula.

I will admit that there is still a chance the coin could be real and some of the big boys may look at it and give it a clean bill of health, but there was enough there to at least have some concerns and say something about it.

I didn't want to identify the coin itself in case it turned out to be genuine, but the cat is out of the bag now.

Either way, I'm sure the outcome of this inquiry should be an educational experience for all of us, so I hope we get an update on the verdict once the big wigs examine the coin closely.

 

Yes, as you acknowledge (and I guess I am taking the bait, I am a sucker!), true, ancient coins flans are cast and do exhibit seams on many resulting struck coins. Just because you have not seen one does not mean they dont exist.

I dont know who told you that, but it is rather plebeian. We should all know better. This is one of those situations where I tell people, 'the internet is not always true. Buy a few books.' If your education is largely gained from the internet you have only one tiny portion, and most of it is likely wrong.

Do I have a database of edge seams? No. Likely nobody on earth does. But those of us who know how coins were made dont need that fictional database. We have our experience, we have handled countless thousands of coins, and have seen many multiples of that in photos.

Once again, I offer no opinion on the coin in question. It needs to be seen in person. I do however offer my opinion on flan creation and preparation and the resulting characteristics. I dont think there will be any who disagree. Darn. Buy a book or two!

 

THANKS for reply...

True enough and I stated that. Over quite a few decades, it's possible that I've closely examined quite a few ancients (counterfeit & genuine) using a stereo microscope. During that time, I have seen very, very many counterfeit silver ancients that have an edge seam or one that has been obliterated fully or in part. That's why I became very curious and excited to see a genuine SILVER ancient with a casting seam on its edge!

Actually, I was under the impression that the flans were lumps of softened metal that were put between the dies and struck. I don't consider molten metal poured into a single-sided mould with flan size holes or a hand-held (lead bullet-type) mould to be a casting but that is the correct technical term. Nevertheless, while this method may produce a "true" edge seam in cases where the "pour" overflowed (probably quite common), any edge seam appears to disappear on the struck coin or it only produces a "sprue-like flat" that may appear as a raised "relic" on the edge. IMO, it looks nothing like an edge seam.

 

Yea. Well it's evening. I'm gonna deal with reality. I.e. My kids. Teen son, pre-teen daughter (tough times ahead!). Making barbacoa tacos tonight (yea, I'm a Californian, cooking for about 10 hours so far). Good times. Now, gonna listen to some 80's music!