I am using the forum as a sounding board, to be heard by you seasoned veterans. I aim to discover what insight you have and if what I have to say, based on all of my reading (zero experience) makes any sense. Near as I can tell this is for the love of the precious metal. I simply love coins, coin collecting and silver and gold. But, when it comes to bullion rounds and bars, am I right that the practical side is, if we keep cash in a safe, it is always what it is printed being worth. But bullion bars and rounds is a small, but significant step ahead of this in that it CAN appreciate. Not much, but if one is thinking of just keeping cash reserve on hand then its worth does not change. Bullion, on the other hand, if bought low and sold high has the potential to be, at least fundamentally, significantly more than cash in value. I am discovering that the spot on bullion effectively soaks up what ever small gains are made. But, over time, a significant gain is likely to be made and a profit, though small, can be made. Still, better than simply keeping cash. Now, I've got enough going on in the market. That is still (despite the oil storm wreaking havoc right now) the best place to make one's money. BUT, bullion does have a niche between cash and stocks. And it is beautiful. And, if all hell tanks the markets, precious metal (survivalists out there?) will always have an intrinsic value. Like I said, this is a sounding board, so pardon the long-winded post. So, I'm looking to make a small purchase of bullion (not talking a "monster box" but something a skosh less) and a place in town is talking $4 over spot on eagles. I find JM is offering what looks like $3 and free shipping. Am I missing something with JM? And what does...um ok. I just checked JM and earlier today they had a box labeled CoA associated with Eagle rounds. Why was it significantly more for 29 of those than 30 of the "silver eagle sets." Well, I'm very curious why in a few hours they have sold out of the CoA sets. They were a few hundred more than the simple sets. What Certificate of Authenticity warrants them selling out and being several hundred more, and with only the difference of one round? Which leads to my next curiosity, looks like some bullion, like the Eagle, Philharmonic, and Canadian Maple leaf, have worth beyond their bullion value. I have a "Wildlife series" South Dakota Deadwood with an eagle on it, saying it is .999 silver and a dealer told me it was a tourist gimmick and worth nothing more than its bullion weight. The Somalian Elephant, China Panda, Australian Kookaburra look like short lived gimmicks. Heck, I even found "Zombiebucks" somewhere on line. Wow. Just looking for silver with integrity.
bullion is just Au or Ag regardless of what is imprinted upon it, unless that imprint is rare and desired by other people. keep looking up stuff on the internet and you will figure it out. look at prices for pandas over the years and make up your own mind.
The eagles are certainly a recognizable form of bullion and will probably continue to be worth a small premium down the line. No idea on the CoA thing; Eagles are Eagles. Many of the other governmental bullion products are equally good, and sometimes better, in this regard. Good post, I feel like you have it nailed.
Welcome David, I think you're spot on (pun intended). The reason that silver eagles and maple leaves get a bit of a premium is because they're well recognized brands, and they are "technically" government minted - so there is something to be said for standardized quality. Kleenex vs. tissue if you will. Those that buy purely for bullion value will almost always go with the lowest price - others not knowing the difference (if any) will error on the side of caution and buy a well known product at a premium. The other thing to consider is your exit strategy and market for it. When you sell, will you be selling to a dealer, in a retail setting? All at once or in small pieces? I tend to buy silver eagles when I can get them at great prices during price dips in the metals market. They're good to sell in small quantity and do garner a big premium. If I need to liquidate immediately, I can usually get what I paid by selling them, more if the metals market is strong. Generic bullion is a bit tougher to get a premium on. In a market like Ebay, if you try and buy/sell immediately you take it in the shorts with the ebay fees and shipping. Also, generic bullion sells better as the demand increases. Right now people can be selective and there's more supply than demand (in theory). There have been a few opportunities recently where I've paid closer to bullion price for premium brands and ASE's. I buy larger size bars in generic bullion to keep the premium down. 10oz bars are great investment material. Enough to have a bit of worth to each bar, small enough to increment sales and purchases. That said, you won't get a premium when you sell it - so this is bullion to hold for price appreciation - at least in my mind. Cheers to ya, and invest wisely!
Yes, Cheers! And I aim to invest wisely! As a professor of Poetry, puns are my bread and butter. I appreciate each of these posts. I'm glad I'm in the neighborhood. And I thank you for welcoming me to the neighborhood.
I've only been doing this for about 18 months. I've bought about 500+/- oz of silver and 10+/- of gold. I did a gold type set of US coins and some others. Silver, I've stuck primarily to Morgan/Peace and ASE's with some others like Libertads, Kangaroos, Philarmonic's when I got great deals on rolls. The ASE is the best bet out there but unlikely to appreciate much anymore based on numismatic cause they're making 35-40 million of them a year now. At least my opinion. I wouldn't pay anywhere near to a $4 premium on them locally cause you'll have to pay taxes likely as well (unless that's in your $4 calculation). JMBullion, APMEX and MCM on ebay and others will run specials from time to time on them. If you're on ebay and into ebay bucks (search this site for threads on ebay bucks), you can SOMETIMES get ebay bucks for bullion if you buy it from the right people (not often) and that will help you get more for your money in the long run. There are tons of makers of silver 'rounds' or bars out there which are the Zombucks and others. Sometimes you can get a decent premium on them over spot, sometimes not depending on the seller and design. Good luck. Collect what you like, get it as cheap as you can, hold it as long as you can, don't be married to it if you HAVE (or want) to sell it.
Only if you pay the premium for them. There are certain lucky folks that get them at or near melt. I picked these up for $25 over melt this week at a coin shop. To me, they're a bullion level purchase with a great upside as they get rarer with age. He told me straight up that they're cleaned - and that's ok. The 1899 still does cartwheels - but I only really paid for the value of the gold.
Yes, well, that's the trick, isn't it? Can you buy silver with integrity from a dealer without it? I don't think so. Barry Stuppler showed a fake Prospector round, apparently made in China, at the 2012 ANA Philly board meeting. Since then my advice is "no generic private silver EVER, EVER". Why? Governments simply care more about slapping down silver and gold fakers when their legal tender designs are on them. Fake private stuff is less risky for the makers, and more dangerous to buyers. Isn't legal tender more per ounce with higher premiums? Yep. You get what you pay for. There is no free lunch. If you pay less, don't cry when you GET less, sometimes MUCH less.
Depends on the day. Last time I paid $20 - a bit begrudgingly. Maybe he decided to cut me a break this time.
If you find Morgans close to melt, email me.........I paid $375 for a roll of mixed Morgans that were actually pretty good with good dates and mint marks. That was an offer on an ebay auction. I like Morgans. My grandfather gave me some and I add to them when I can find great deals on them. Which is rare.
Howdy David, It sounds like you've got all the basics. Silver bullion is a weird market due to some of the premiums. At the low end are the generic silver rounds and ingots with the cheapest being those minted at Joe's Mint and Carwash. The best are Engelhard and Johnson Matthey - they're the top shelf of the generic silver. When it comes to coins it get's a bit more odd. Some carry a higher premium due to 'rarity' such as the Panda. Some like ASE's and Leafs carry a bit higher premium because they're easy to sell. And, as mentioned above, coins are safer to buy and sell. And it goes without saying that you can get quantity discounts. This link shows the premiums on a many of the basic coins. It's my local dealer. http://libertycoinservice.com/wp-content/uploads/quotes/daily_quotes.pdf What get's very strange is when the Central and Money Center banks are dinking the paper price of bullion and it diverges from the street price. This results in either higher premiums and/or reduced supply. It's a fairly common micro economic event whenever the price is somehow fixed below what the market feels is correct. Witness the gas price controls under Nixon - no supply because they couldn't get away with upping the premium (price). Witness the liquidity trap the feds have gotten us into with artificially low interest rates. Try to get a mortgage at 3% or so and Mr. Banker is all out of money. However, if you're willing to pay 4-5% . . . perhaps he can find some. This same stuff happen with bullion when you have divergence between what folks believe it's worth and what they 'markets' tell us it is. Either lack of supply or much higher premiums. I note that you're stacking different things and I think that's a good idea. My stash is mostly ASE's and AGE's but I also have a bunch of Prospectors and Engelhard bars; tubes of 1 oz ingots and some 10 oz bars. Also some 90%. I like diversity, particularly with investments. Lastly, because you like collecting coins don't fret terribly if you end up with some blurring between stacking bullion and collecting coins. Feh, the Somali Elephants may be a fad but who cares . . . I like them. Dansco makes albums for ASE's but also for Libertads and Mapleleafs. Why not collect them all? Some folks over the years have collected Silver Crowns with various and sundry Kings and Queens. Very neat to collect but what is the difference between a stack of 8 Reales and a stack of Libertads? Age? Worth? How about in another 100 years? Good luck, And so it goes, peace, rono
