Rounds, Gov. Issued, Eagles or Maples? Starting out and confused

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by HoldingHistory, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. HoldingHistory

    HoldingHistory Active Member

    Hey guys,

    I am starting to look more into putting some of my assets into gold and silver. Right now, I am planning on starting mostly with silver due to the current silver/gold correlation. My basic question is, would you recommend rounds or government issued? I am leaning towards gov issued coins, but not sure between Canadian maples and silver eagles. Is there any particular advantage, one over the other?

    Thanks!
    Nathan
     
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  3. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    As a rule, Eagles and Maples have some numismatic value where generic rounds do not. If your only interest is for investment purposes, then it would make sense to buy it as cheaply as possible. However, the resale of Eagles and Maples is much easier than generic rounds, so I guess it is a toss-up. It's your money! It's your call!

    Chris
     
  4. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    I'm not really a stacker but I prefer ASEs. I don't care for the design of the Maples and most of the generic rounds. I also feel ASEs would be easier to sell. I think when considering Maples versus ASEs Maples usually have a slightly lower premium but I may be remembering this incorrectly. I also seem to remember Maples are more prone to milk spotting - again this is just a cosmetic consideration but one that keeps me from buying them.
     
  5. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Depends where you are located. Both sell well and are widely well known, but generally Americans do prefer the Eagles. Maples are usually slightly cheaper in the USA while Eagles can be found slightly cheaper in Canada.
     
  6. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    As you start to invest, you'll find that the more popular ASE's, Maples and a lot of Australian products have a bit more of a premium on them.

    I have a mish-mash and I base my buys on the spot price, premium asked and potential premium when sold.

    ASE's have a huge premium, but there are buying opportunities that allow you to get them at "below market" and I've paid as little as a buck over spot for them - retail.

    I generally will pay a bit over spot for premium bullion (ASE's, Maples, etc) and then turn around and sell them to a collector to re-invest the premium.

    When you go to sell, depending on timeframe, you will find that the ASE's will warrant a numismatic premium for the older years - especially if you have a series of rolls. I won't guarantee it, but the opportunity is there - and they are widely recognized.
     
  7. gar2

    gar2 New Member

    I was under the impression that there would be no capital gains tax if you cash out your ASE's. I don't believe this to be true for non US coins/rounds.
     
  8. Speedbump

    Speedbump Not a New Member

    Like any investment, diversity is key. Start off with what you like then build your inventory with various types over time. Government bullion, generic rounds, differing bar sizes, etc… Just find the best prices for each type.

    I started with eagles and Perth mint products, then started to get into 90%, generics, and various semi-numismatic collections and series.
     
  9. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    You can collect any silver you want but I will tell you from experience. Some of those private mint rounds will liquidate for a lot less than you paid. Best way to go is to buy only American Silver Eagles, jmho. I had a ton of silver and when I tried to sell I found out real quickly that coin shops prefer ASE's.
     
  10. rugerr1

    rugerr1 New Member

    Im in the stacking /collecting stage as this is part of my long term retierment plan,so I havent tried to sell any of my stuff and I havent crossed that bridge yet. Are you saying that you couldnt get close to spot for generic rounds? Can you give an example ? and im guessing this would apply to bars and generic govt issued rounds?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  11. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    It was a long time ago when I was selling silver but I can guarantee you, at least here in California. Coin shops routinely pay $1 to $2 less for silver rounds than they are paying for ASE's, some silver rounds they aren't even interested in. When I found out this information, I never bought silver rounds again. Even with Maple Leafs you don't get as much as with ASE's, same with Mexican silver. Check with your nearest coin shop and just ask them how much they are paying right now for ASE's and ask them, how much they pay for silver rounds. Could be your area is different, but I doubt it.
     
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  12. rugerr1

    rugerr1 New Member

    I dont mean to pry , but what has been your experience when selling bars?
     
  13. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    I haven't sold very many bars at all, mainly b/c I only bought vintage silver bars so the few I sold went for sale on fleabay. I would have gotten screwed if I would have tried to sell the bars I had b/c the coin shop is always looking to pay spot or a little below spot. When I buy vintage bars, I always keep track of what I pay because I am not letting them go for spot or anywhere near there, I don't want to forget what I paid especially if I paid a premium. Some of the older locomotive bars 1970 and beyond are quite collectible. As far as your question goes, there aren't any government issued bars that I know about, at least not US bars.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1oz-999-Fin...319883?hash=item2ee66bcc0b:g:MqkAAOxyP4dTcjki

    dblscrewed.jpg
     
  14. rugerr1

    rugerr1 New Member

    Sorry I mean just plain bars from Apmex or Provident
     
  15. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    As far as silver bars go, I'm sure there are many reputable companies including Apmex, Provident, Kitco etc. With that said, I think Engelhard Mint out of New Jersey, is the name to follow as they have quite a following especially on their hand poured silver bars. Supposedly the odd amounts are the ones that bring the biggest following so I suggest if you want to start collecting silver bars. Then follow a few sales on the bay about some odd amount of silver bars, one is linked below, way too much to pay!! Naturally you wouldn't want to sell these to your local mom & pop coin shops ever, unless they want to pay top dollar. Linked 3ouncer is way too much to pay, I just wanted to show you the odd amount old hand pours bring top dollar. tmoney.gif

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-oz-Silver...554127?hash=item210880698f:g:P0EAAOSwNSxU72HA
     
    rugerr1 likes this.
  16. rugerr1

    rugerr1 New Member

    Thats great information! Thanks for sharing
     
  17. autograf

    autograf Member

    My LCS will typically pay spot only for rounds/bars/sovereign's other than ASE's. They typically pay spot + $1 for ASE's unless they're numismatic years. It's hard sometimes to pass up some of those ebay deals on sovereigns other than the ASE's. I'm about 75% in ASE but I pick up rolls of other stuff when it's really cheap over spot. I've got Libertads, Philharmonics, Australian Spiders and Kangaroos, etc. I like the designs too much. Maybe I should just get types of those and stick with ASE's but sometimes the premium on ASE's is too much. There have been some good 5 roll deals on ASE's lately. Think they're trying to blow out the remaining 2015's. Don't look for many of the recent ASE's to go numismatic.....the mintage is like 40 million lately. Amazing compared to some of those earlier mintages.
     
  18. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Yeah I hear you, the premium on ASE's is high. I mean when the spot price is $13.50 and you're paying $18.00 for an ASE it really doesn't seem worth it, especially when there are other silver rounds going for cheaper. There's another way to look at it though. All those ASE's that are now being sold on ebay auctions at around $18 cost way more when they were originally sold to the public from the US Mint or selected dealers. Hopefully the price of silver will skyrocket or at least make it up to $50 an ounce. That may be a long wait. The fact that the price of ASE's remains high is an indicator of supply and demand. Most silver stackers are buying ASE's more than any other silver ounces. Sure, just my opinion but that's all I have. Also, there are other sellers of ASE's, such as coin clubs and coin shows. When I am seriously stacking, I won't buy anything other than ASE's but that's just me.
     
  19. HoldingHistory

    HoldingHistory Active Member

    Thank you all for the replies! I think I will stick with ASE's and probably some 10-100oz bars.
    Nathan
     
  20. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    My advice, if you are insistent in "investing" in metals, is to stick to some major government issue - ASE's, Maple Leafs, Britannias, Libertads, Philharmonics, etc. At any given spot price, you will find these various pieces at shows for fairly widely spaced prices. Get whichever is the hot special du jour. Any major country's pieces are FAR, F-A-R more liquid that ANY generic round or bar. And liquidity translates into a higher price when you (or your heirs) sell.

    That said, I am known here for believing there is no such thing as investing in metals, only speculating. Call me one who agrees 100% with Warren Buffet regarding PM's.
     
  21. Brett_in_Sacto

    Brett_in_Sacto Well-Known Member

    I beat "The Oracle" this year in terms of growth and loss avoidance in the stock market.

    I did it with sheer contrarian spite - following his own words of "being greedy when others were fearful and fearful when others were greedy."

    Dolor Emptor Aurum Ergo Quaestus

    Markets WILL move. Metals have a market. Ergo - Metals WILL move.

    http://fortune.com/2015/09/03/warren-buffett-lost-11-billion/

    Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway BRK.A -0.02% , the insurance company turned investment conglomerate run by the billionaire, appears to have lost $11.2 billion in value from its stock market investments, on paper at least, during the worst of the downturn from mid-July to the end of August.

    http://fortune.com/2015/09/03/warren-buffett-lost-11-billion/
     
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