Buy the coin, not the slab

I'm sorry it seems that way. We have so many new people - new to the hobby not just new to the list - that showing coins can be educational. One of the first things I like to see cleared up is the business of all ancient coins being rare museum specimens. Some of our recent arrivals have shown coins that most of us will never see unless we visit a museum. When a newby posts a question about a common ruler, you can count on a run of his coins and, for reasons I'm less clear on, several posts stating that we don't all have one but we do have something else.

My observation at coin shows is that relatively few people look at the educational exhibits because they are so busy shopping for coins. Here we have the free time and opportunity of showing what exists on various levels (one of our members has a half decent EID MAR while another has the world's worst specimen of several coins much more rare than the EID). I enjoy looking at our variety of collection foci and our huge range of price brackets. I admit that I prefer posts that show coins I have not seen for a week or two but when a new member makes it clear that they don't know the meaning of a term like clashed die or how to tell one Constantinian kid from another you can bet that the usual suspects will be trotted out for their benefit to the dismay of those who find both of those subjects crashing bores.

After a while, some of us become a bit like family; you can't pick'em but you gotta luv'em. (Now, who is the black sheep?).

 

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Quizmistress General: I wonder how many of our current posters know what coin led to our coming here. We are approaching three years.

 

Blacksheep right here.

No one ever said, " I wanna collect eastern coins when I grow up."

 

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you talking about the Pan incident with Steve on the "other board?"

 

I freely admit I'm guilty of this. But I try to add a little history and context to my posts. Also, I don't know many people who appreciate ancient coins in my everyday life, so it's nice to get feedback, ideas, and criticisms from like minded folk. Bragging is an unfortunately by-product.

 

I appreciate your posts and your coins tremendously, but I sure would appreciate it more if you could send me a few on...shall we say a 20 year loan? Your Titus Cistophorus ought to do the trick.

 

Ooh gossip! I'm keen to hear about Steve and Pan-gate.

 

This makes me sad.

 

Looks like that company pays a guy in a shed to take a sanding powertool to the coins, dip them in battery acid, then rinse them, and then they get sent to NGC where they make them into "plastic commodities". Honestly, I know all Ancients have been cleaned to some extent, but I wish NGC had some standards and integrity and refuse to grade ancient coins that have been cleaned so horrendously as to strip any numismatic value.

 

That, and some poor idiot paid $352 for it. I feel sorry for idiots.

 

Is this comment aimed at me? If its authenticity is in question please let me know, don't just talk among yourselves behind my back. As a newbie to ancients I was unaware that NGC does not stand behind the authenticity of the coins that it grades.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/corinth-ar-stater-pegasus-my-2nd-ancient-purchase.271510/

I have to say that my experiences as a collector of early U.S. coins and from reading forums such as these for the past few years is that truly reputable dealers are very few and far between. I've seen instances of so-called top notch dealers acting in ways that appear to be very unethical when they think that they can get away with it. Frankly I'd be willing to trust a 3rd party grader much more than all but a few coin dealers since the inherent profit motive is so strong.

 

That is correct NGC will not say weather a coin is authentic or not, but if they slab it there is a good chance it is, at least someone with a ot of experience looking at coins has given it the thumbs up, this is not full proof. There is no full proof method, unless you dug them out of the ground yourself. (people dig up fakes all the time in Bulgaria) so that statement isnt even entirely true. There are many good dealers and collectors that would honor the coin they sell.

As for your stater for Corinth, I met with a fellow collector last night, and over a few drinks your coin came up in conversation, and yes we both agree it is real, and very very desirable. Just saying...

 

How can something be behind your back when it is an open discussion being held by a couple dozen people for an entire day??

And yes, for me, I have doubts. I spent hrs looking for an incuse of similar design (and I took into account the transitional styles that JA posted.) I could find nothing similar. A few others here have posted concerns, but nobody likes to label a good coin bad, so they have been cautious in their tone. Several others have jumped in and blessed it. I would like them to point to some reference that shows something close. I can't find it. Since it isn't my coin, I stopped devoting time to it.

If I owned it, I would want to know more about it. I hope it is genuine for everyones sake, because it is unusual.

I don't know how to be more in front of a person than that.

And I read Nates response as I was writing this. I would still want to know more, I would not rely on the encapsulation as a guarantee of authenticity. Or Nates keen eye via a photo of a slabbed coin. I have no idea who at the grading agency looked at this and many have now made it clear that because someone graded and slabbed it......it does not guarantee authenticity. To assume it authentic because someone looked at it before slabbing it is a FALSE assumption. Sorry Nate.

It could be a unique, rare or scarce piece, or it could be a fake. It is not run of the mill. THAT alone should raise on eyebrow and beg more examination.

BTW if your coin had come from a reputable dealer, it should have had a well researched attribution. this would have simplified any verification attempt. There is value in that. Ask any one of the dealers or their reps that post here.

None of this should dissuade you from collecting ancients. Just understand that the slab can be a hindrance, and in this case I believe it is.

 

I agree with you totally...and its all good

 

I sent a long PM to Joe which has a ton of info to get him oriented and started in the hobby. Hopefully that will help him out as it did me.

 

Thank you.

 

This is a case where I would prefer a reference as opposed to a grade. Obviously Vagi or one of his crew members felt the coin was authentic, and there's something to be said for that - they're not hacks after all. The problem with with Corinthian staters is that there are so many varieties from Corinth itself, not to mention cities that minted Corinth-style staters. It could belong to the latter group.

Sources for these coins include Calciati, Ravel, Pegasi auctions, BMC., etc., but to my knowledge nobody has compiled an exhaustive catalog of varieties, or even tried. In the case of a coin like this, I would very much like NGC to give me a reference - they can keep the grade.

 

Its funny NGC gave reference for this coin....hummm

 

One side effect of the slabbing industry is that it turned coin collectors into grade obsessed commodity owners. That leads to some unfortunate threads such as the one currently in the first page of the Coin Chat forum here in Cointalk about encasing your coins in more plastic and vacuum sealing your collection. As I said on that thread, when you get to that point, may as well collect pet rocks, as they'll be more fun and hands on than your hermetically sealed coins in airtites, slabs, etc., wrapped up in 4 or 5 additional layers of plastic and whatever to the point that you can never see or hold them when you want to.

Not saying that condition is not important at all. I hope you all understand my point.

 

Maybe a bit naïve, but I didn't realize before you can get your videogames and comic books slabbed. That's hilarious but illustrates perfectly well and emphazises exactly my feeling about slabbed coins : you can't play with them any more

Q

PS : as a side note, even though I've been a member here for ten years, I find those recurring threads still interesting, as (and it's been said above) they allow new members to learn about the subject, but also, and primarily, because it allows us to read new ideas and opinions