Let me preface this post with this...what I know about coin quality, grading and strike, you could fit on the head of a pin. That said, I am utterly confused with the HUGE price variations on coins that have the coveted "green bean". For example, I just looked at a 1898-P MS65 that was (IMHO) an absolute beautiful gem...the seller was asking 249.00 (+ 15.00 premium based on Bowers book) and there were 0 bids, they avoided it like the plague! On the other hand, I am looking at an 1880-S MS64 (almost 9M mintage) and easy to find in MS64 and the seller is asking 160.00 (+75.00 premium based on Bowers book!)! I recently bought an 1880-S MS64 (w/o the CAC) for 67.00 Comments, please.
Forget the sticker and buy the coin. Maybe the 1880 S was a vam 8 or 10 that would raise the price being both in the top 100 vams. I personally don't buy sticker ed coins no matter what.
Some people value the sticker, some people even collect the sticker (like me). Just like some people value a TPG slab, and some people even collect Slabs. It's not that I NEED the sticker, it's just that at some point I decided to put together a US Type set, and I added the limitation that I wanted them all to also be CAC approved, just to see if I could do it and sort of differentiate my set from the other 10,000 type sets out there. For me, it added extra security and also slowed down my buying since it was more restrictive.
IMO, probably worth 0-3% max. Here is a horrible CAC coin which I did requested a refund. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/i-bought-this-pcgs-ms63-1907-o-half-with-cac.264368/
One other point, every coin is unique, so it may have been something other than the CAC sticker that made one coin more expensive than another example. It may also have been that the dealer with the CAC example just always charges alot more for coins than another dealer. There are costs associated with submitting coins to CAC, so on a whole, CAC approved coins will cost you slightly more. It also happens that the marketplace or collector and dealers have decided in the aggregate that CAC approved coins can command a higher premium. People tend to pay more, therefore some dealers tend to charge more. it doesn't mean this is always the case, or that you should always pick a stickered coin over a non-stickered example.
This is my only CAC coin for now. I'll pay a little extra for a nice coin but I'm not going overboard.
No you should pick a coin that first fits your collection and budget, Next that has eye appeal for both strike and luster. If you can't afford the coin you want wait it out until your budget fits the price point of the grade you desire. To me buying a sticker coin is like asking someone to pick out your next car and color you want to drive. My luck I would be driving something a Mary Kay Representative would be driving. A big pink boat!
CAC is just another TPG service done by humans. Everyone has a different eye and perspective. If you are buying the coin for your collection, only your eye matters. I like slabbed coins because they (mostly) guarantee authenticity for me as I'm not keen on counterfeits. Otherwise, I pay attention to the coin vs the slab or even CAC sticker.
I'm not hung up on any stickered coin, the entire point of my post was the asking price vs market for that particular coin and grade. Both coins were slabbed, no VAMs.
Ahh, you mean why did one go so far over and another not? I'm out of my league there but I'm guessing it boils down to supply and demand. The dealer thought there would be a higher demand for the coin with a higher mark up.
Eggzackly...even at a push of $90 for the 81-s in ms64, how could it possibly command a 77% premium for a BIN coin of the same grade?
A couple of things. First of all just because a person is "asking" $160 for that coin, that doesn't mean he will get it. He might, but if he does it will almost certainly be from somebody who doesn't really know what he is doing. Another thing is, you could take that same $160 coin and have 2 different dealers offering to sell it. One might only ask $75, while the other will ask $160. Differences like that among dealers are a constant. In other words, on any given day you can find similar examples with virtually any coin. There are always going to be sellers, dealers or individuals, looking to take advantage of the inexperienced and/or uneducated potential buyers. As for this coin you mentioned - - they were probably avoiding it like the plague because you can buy the same coin, with no CAC sticker, for about $175. And with the sticker for from $200-$250. So the guy was simply asking too much. In my opinion anything over $200 would be too much. But then there are too many people out there who have inflated ideas when it comes to values. Your only true protection lies down one of two routes. You can either find and only deal with trusted and respected dealers who will not take advantage of you. Or you can gain the needed knowledge yourself so you can make your own informed decisions.
Thanks GD...the '98 p did have a CAC...I have concluded that the CAC sticker is a collaboration between the private CAC/Coinplex and the top two grading companies...as I have heard echoed from many, "buy the coin, not the slab".
Not to mention there are the few individuals that think the CAC sticker is a good bet at getting the coin bumped up a grade if you send it into a different TPG service, thus inflating the price at the current grade.
Remember that CAC is not a TPG service. It only verifies solid or above average coins for the grade and offers to buy them sight unseen. This is why CAC coins sell for a premium. From a dealer perspective they are premium coins.
This is what I want to do, but it implies a major commitment to learning on the part of the collector. Reading can help a lot. However, doesn't one really need to "get their eyes on" lots and lots of coins in the series that one collects to really get somewhat of a handle on the grading/counterfeit detection for that series?
Totally get that, but what my post targeted was the huge price swings from fair market to a ++ premium (in the first example I used +77%!) without any justification.
That is very clear...but premium to the extent of 77%? And I believe that CAC will only accept coins that are NGC or PCGS. I'm glad my "premium" beer doesn't cost 77% more!
Here is an example of a worthless CAC...look at all the scratches on the front side. http://www.ebay.com/itm/381314650422?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I've seen many non-CAC coins on eBay with a ridiculous BIN too. Like GD stated, many have an inflated opinion of their coins (CAC or no-CAC). I like the idea of having a giant in the industry (JA) viewing and approving a coin; however, I'm not willing to pay big premiums just because he approved. I have many CAC stickered coins, but it' not a prerequisite on a graded coin. IMO, you need to use your own common sense when viewing each coin on an individual basis. There's no "secret sauce", so to speak. I don't like every coin I see graded by a TPG, nor do I like every coin with a CAC sticker. I look at the coin first, view the grade, weigh the CAC and make up my mind whether I like the coin and want to add it to my collection. Once I've determined I want the coin, I determine what I'm willing to pay for it. I use a variety of price guides to help with value, but I rely most heavily on HA's auction archives. If I can't find enough examples at HA, than I'll see if they have one in a current auction. Each listing has a price guide with multiple price sources as well as the Heritage index. IMO, there is no "magic" plastic and/or sticker.
