Anyone else agree with me?

Definitely a counterfeit.

 

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Contemporary or modern day Matt?

 

It's new Chinese.

 

Thanks Matt. Scary.......

 

These fakes are starting to scare me:
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/error-or-damage-1857-seated-half.252023/

Last week I was exchanging messages with a fairly established eBay seller who listed an obvious fake Seated Dollar. He told me he took it down and asked for my reasoning which I provided in depth, but it remained for sale......as of a few hours ago, it sold. :-( Not good.

 

The seller guarantees the item is authentic. Even though it is quite a noticeable chinese fake.

 

while I agree with you, eBay is not under any obligation to take your advice.

 

It looks off.

 

Just out of curiosity...

I wondered why so many sites say that 5,000 1873 "No Arrows" were minted, yet none could give no prices for any, even in "Good" condition. Obviously none have ever been discovered... yet thousands were minted?

http://www.usacoinbook.com/coins/half-dollars/seated-liberty/

Then I found a reference at David Lawrence in a book that is now free (and probably well-known to the old-timers here): The Complete Guide to Liberty Seated Half Dollars.

http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index...omplete-guide-to-liberty-seated-half-dollars/

This page here:
http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/seated-half-dollars-1873-s/

tells me that:

Of the 5,000 minted No-Arrows coins, none are known to exist today. With the April 1, 1873 effective date of the Coinage Act of 1873, all existing No-Arrows coins were supposedly melted at the mint before release.
​

Also interesting was this tidbit:

A single No-Arrows piece (Breen-4972), an assay piece shipped to Philadelphia on March 5, 1873 and cataloged in Beistle’s reference, is untraced. It may have been in Col Green’s collection when cataloged by Beisde, or more likely, Beistle acknowledged the possible existence of this coin but never really saw it. Most likely, the 1873-S No-Arrows assay coin took the route of most assay pieces and was destroyed.​

 

Quality over quantity.

 

Josh glad you could tell it's a fake .

 

I didn't really have much more to add. It looks sorta cast, but I don't know how the new modern chinese fakes will work. They're getting better that's for sure... Imagine all the fake coins that didn't have such minor errors, and got passed by the TPG's? I'm scared to buy ANYTHING from ebay these days. These posts just get me worried.

 

If you just look at any suspected fake and compare it to examples of coins with known diagnostics you'll be able to spot most fakes .

 

For the record, it is likely not a counterfeit -- it is a forgery. Yes, there is a difference, and yes something can be both things.

Counterfeits are made to pass at face value (of modern designs still in use). For example, counterfeit modern day $100 bills.

Forgeries are made to replicate collectibles, and are sold (or attempted to be sold) at well above face value as rarities. Forgeries are usually of older/antique items, manufactured nowadays but passed off as truly old.

This distinction is made in Charles M. Larson's VERY good book titled "Numismatic Forgery," and it's a difference that I think all numismatists should learn to make (even if lay people do not).

If you want to be safe, then "fake" is a word that's interchangeable with both words. Oh, the semantics....my head hurts....

Cheers, Brandon

 

I think you only called it a "fake" -- which is completely correct. No worries, I wasn't trying to be pedantic, I was more trying to be precise. These "Chinese fakes" are forgeries...and I wish they would stop. At least, I don't think the Chinese have started to counterfeit our State Quarters program yet.

 

It can be very questionable to compare mintmark style and position to try and determine authenticity (especially from a different year) because since the mintmark was punched in by hand and vary in position. They also used different different style mintmarks in different years (and sometimes more than one style in the same year.)

Much better to compare dates of other coins from the same year. After the mid 1840's the date logotype is typically identical on all dies and denominations for a given year. (There are some exceptions) I believe the 3 on the date on this piece is misshappen compared to other genuine 1873 half dollars. It is a fake.

 

Nah, they missed the boat on that one Brandon........besides, nobody cares anymore.