I'm talking here about coins with details grading in NGC holders, Genuine attribution coins in PCGS holders, ANACs and ICG problem coins, and even raw coins with minor-major problems. I'm mostly talking as well about Ebay, because that's where I've encountered this. For instance, I'll be searching for a Barber quarter with luster present and nice eye appeal, and these are priced above 150 for the most part. You'd think an EF or AU with an improperly cleaned or scratch attribution would sell for half it's graded retail price but dealers seem to price them 10-20% below. This seems ridiculous to me. Even the darkly toned, quite ugly problem coins and barely marked down. With the raw coins, the mark downs are similar or even more irritating. For instance, I've seen harshly cleaned and even whizzed coins with rim damage selling for 10% below the book value of a problem-free coin of the same grade (ie ef, AU, etc.). Sometimes you can talk a dealer down, but I've experienced only small markdowns. Is this crazy or what? What do you consider are fair values for problem coins, graded and ungraded? Thanks
Like grades, a "details" attribution is only an OPINION. I once assembled some rolls of 1987 and 1987-D Kennedy Half Dollars from mint sets. After a year or so, I took them down to a local coin shop to sell since they had big premiums in 1988. He was concerned that the coins had been "whizzed". His opinion. I have received details Cleaned grades from PCGS for coins that, when resubmitted, came back as MS63. Again, only their opinion. Folks considering purchasing details graded coins should rely upon their knowledge on whether or not that want to pursue the transaction. Folks should also STOP letting the TPG's lead them around by the nose!
I have to agree with 19lyds. TPGs are not end all and be all of coins. In the end it all boils down to "do you like the coin enough to pay the sellers asking price". At that point the choice is yours.
I see your points, and I agree. But you kind of evaded my post. I agree they're opinions, but they're educated opinions that are close or in-line with the market. In any case, how much do you pay for minor problem coins? How much for major ones (eg obvious rim ding, deep scratch, harsh cleaning)?
I've had a lot of "details" coins come and go and honestly I try to avoid them, since problem coins are always a tough sell. How much it's discounted should be determined by the severity of the problem. i.e., a coin with a couple of small rim dings should sell for more than an identical coin with a huge X across the face. But there's no price guide for damaged/cleaned coins, and that creates a challenge for someone trying to put an honest value on a piece. Personally, I've never been able to buy problem coins at half the value. Seems like 10-20% is the norm in this market...but take that as it's meant...as a sweeping generalization and not as a firm rule. I think it all comes down to "how badly do you need the coin?" If it's a coin that's easily found/replaced, the discount should be significant. However if you're talking about a rare coin that's hard to locate, or very expensive in original condition, the discount may not be that great. Not sure if I helped or not, there's just no hard-and-fast rule for pricing problem coins. Best, tradernick
I completely agree and see it all the time. Lately most of my acquisitions have been on Ebay, and it's tough to weed through the countless 1922 raw AU peace dollars where the seller is asking $50. I really don't understand how these sellers operate on eBay. I get the whole concept of waiting for an uninformed buyer or a buyer that needs something very specific in a short time frame, but it seems waiting for that is counterproductive to making a sale. Maybe those folks are willing to wait as long as it takes for that sucker or desperate buyer to come by.
Here's the issue with eBay - the "market" is determined by what the sellers can consistently get for like coins. Your definition of what the price "should be" e.g., may or may not reflect what other buyers in the market think it should be. Not only true with eBay or with coins in general. I find in my life that if somebody wants more for something than I'm willing to pay, then I'm probably in the "wrong" market.
As kind of mentioned already, prices for problem coins can fall anywhere in between 20% - 80% of what a problem free example would bring. And yes it all depends on the severity of the problem. But please, don't pay too much attention to what you see on ebay ! The prices there are very often way too inflated. There's just too many people who don't know what they are doing buying coins on ebay and they pay too much. If you want to know the market for problem coins, a fair price, then do the same thing you should be doing for problem free coins, study the records on Heritage. Compare the coins to each other to see how severe and what type of problem they have. That will give a pretty good ballpark idea of value, real value.
Completed sales are a much better indicator of value for ebay than what an active listing is asking for on a coin. Regardless, I generally avoid problem coins like the plague.
Many sellers on eBay look at the grade on a slab and ignore the word DETAILS (or whatever). And those sellers (intentionally or unintentionally) price the coin based on the grade. They make NO allowance for the word DETAILS.
Well said. Andf you think a seller's price is unrealistic or even offensive there's only one thing to do. Forget about it and move on. Life is too short to waste another moment on it.
didn't mean to evade, but my coin collecting philosophy is simple and differs from that of many (most) here. I collect because I love the coins and the history attached. I have many "details" and "genuine" slabs because it is the only way I could ever afford some of these coins. A great example is my 1857 Large cent https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1857-large-date-large-cent-has-arrived.232606/, it is a "genuine" grade but has great detail vf/xf with minimal damage. I got it for about the price of an ag/g coin so well worth it to me. As and investment however I will not see much if any increase in value but I can still proudly say I have one with great eye appeal in my collection If you on the other hand are "investing" for the future, "details" coins are NOT the best way to go.
You/I pay what the dealer is asking or we buy from someone else. You/I avoid details graded coins by simply NOT looking at the pricing on details graded coins. That way, we don't get upset at the thought of some dealer possibly selling a "details graded" coin for more than what we think they should! BTW, I do NOT intentionally buy "minor problem coins" and instead focus on "non" problem coins.
Good point about ebay. Yeah, I used to avoid them and still do most of the time. However, I think if you cracked a few out of their holders they still might look quite nice and sell for more in a unlabeled holder.
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. You all made a lot of sense and made me think about some things. Well said. Thanks for replying again. I think you have a good thing going. I also think some problem coins are fabulous to own. Do you ever crack them out or do you just leave them in the details or genuine holders?
To understand the asking prices you're seeing on eBay, you need to understand just one two-word phrase: Free Listings. Dealers, wannabe dealers, and random clueless passersby can list a ridiculous number of coins on eBay with any asking price they want, and it costs them nothing at all to do it. If they aren't in a hurry to sell, they can set the price absurdly high, and just keep re-listing until they decide they do need to sell it, or until someone bites. It's hard to imagine that anyone ever buys those circulated common Peace dollars at $50, but if you've got a 1% chance of tripling your money on a coin if it sells, and a 0% chance of losing any money if it doesn't, why not put it out there? I understand that when you're looking to buy a coin, you want to look at current listings. But if you're trying to find out what a coin will actually sell for, you want to look at sold listings. For many years, eBay resisted that option -- they only let you search completed auctions, and you had to wade manually through all the stuff that ended without a sale. Now, though, you can just check the "Sold listings" box when you search, and you'll get a nice reverse-chronological summary of prices people have been getting. You can also sort by ascending or descending value. So, pick a few of your favorite problem/details coins, search eBay's sold listings, and see what the damaged goods have actually been selling for. I'd be interested to hear what you find.
I think probably 80% of eBayers are only able/willing to spend around $100 or less on a single coin. Combine that with inexperience and genuine excitement for the hobby, and you'll find that the majority of eBay buyers want "the most coin for the least amount of money." So many of them don't mind major problem coins as long as the coins have a ton of detail remaining. IMO, this is why you'll see coins with major problems selling both at auction and with buy it now for inflated prices.
Well as for breaking em out of the plastic tombstone, some I will others not. in the case of the large cent I have kept it in the slab but I have also bought a few bustie halves that I broke out to put in my album. This is one I broke out (details again) but also because SEGs is not exactly a big name in TPGs. (https://www.cointalk.com/threads/po...-strange-tpg-slabs.243787/page-2#post-1882595) Generaly though I keep em slabbed as if it ever comes that I have to liquidate my collection the slabs bring higher prices as a general rule.
Very well said about the free listings. I will definitely do what you said. I forgot about that option. Thanks!
