So, now JPM is being blasted by owning TOO MUCH pm?

Eh, found a tiny bit of money and bought a few ounces of silver coins I like today. To heck with all of them, I like my pretty little silver coins.

 

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Who was doing that? I was insulting the segment of the bullion "sellers" who are slimy, not those who "invest" in bullion.

 

Yes, not fond of those guys either, they are cut from the same piece of cloth

 

Then you may want to specify that it is the dealers you have a problem with to avoid misinterpretation. Actually, from what I have heard, Mike Maloney makes a lot of sense, though I think he's fair game for criticism. The silver gurus I have an issue with are Chris Duane and BrotherJohnF. I dislike Duane because he says "listen to all and follow none," yet I notice he has a cult-like following on YouTube. His followers get enraged when you criticize their guru. The issue I have with BrotherJohnF is that he was always sensitive to criticism and eventually removed the commenting feature from his videos. I believe he even deleted a couple of my comments.

Relatedly, I notice how acceptable it is to criticize bullion dealers, yet if someone ventures off into other forums and suggests that coin dealers are likewise shady, or that the shadiness in the hobby is a major problem rather than an exception, that person is quickly scolded by those who feel the need to defend the image of the hobby. Yet, it seems obvious that there is overlap between coin and bullion dealers. I'd like to see all of the taboos broken, and not just bullion dealers as acceptable objects of criticism. Actually, I don't even care if these dealers do what they do. I just dislike the moral high ground granted to some of them in discussions, when the truth is exactly the opposite.

 

If We were to bring back Glass-Steagall and actually enforce it.....I`d have no more qualms with JPMC or any of them.

 

Yeah, it's funny that you are buying all of this PM yet criticize the PM gurus. Likewise, I would be classified by many PM bears as a numismatist rather than a bullion investor if they saw my collection -- a good chunk of my PMs is collectibles -- yet I identify with Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Max Keiser and others who believe in sound money. You'll find me posting my latest denarii and drachms soon in the Ancient Coins forum.

 

Speaking of Max Keiser.....RT (the network that carried His show) was pulled from my lineup without warning....I miss His tirades. Watching Him on Youtube is not the same.

 

I don't see any disconnect there, I think he's just calling it like he sees it.

 

Imho this is pretty straight forward, it's hard to take someone at face value when they are analyzing the market and selling a product as well. It's kind of like going to a Toyota dealer and expecting impartial advice on what car to buy...
Now, Mike Maloney is a smart guy with a lot of knowledge and he's been doing this for a while now. What he says makes a lot of sense but it's always smart to listen to several sources and then form your own opinion.
Myself I tend to agree with what he's saying about a huge crash being near but it's really hard to predict the final outcome.
It would be interesting to know how much physical gold JPM is sitting on as well. Any good businessman will try to manipulate the market in his/her favor, that's the free market for you. If I could tank the market and buy super cheap, that's how I would do it. Once I had all the goodies I would let everything run it's course and cash in when appropriate. Not rocket science here...

 

Sounds like they are trying to relate JPM to the Hunt Brothers which is somewhat warranted and there is a basis for this.

For more information read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Bunker_Hunt

 

Ha, it's ok to buy the stuff if you think it's perty... just no buying with that nonsense talk about history and fiat systems NEVER enduring.

 

I agree, and the same applies to coin dealers. How can coin dealers be expected to be impartial when they make their living by buying low and selling high? I am not saying coin dealers should not exist, but merely that the same principle applies. In my opinion, coin dealers as a group are not the noble characters presented in other forums here, the same way car salesmen aren't. This is not to say they are all bad and should not exist -- they obviously have a role to play in society. I have been in the hobby for a couple of years and I am stunned at how anyone can attribute the virtues to coin dealers that some do. I don't think my experience is merely anecdotal. Actually, I joined these forums when I sought advice as a result of a minor scam (I won't elaborate). But again, it's acceptable to bash bullion and not coin dealers, apparently.

As far as bullion dealers go, they should be met with great skepticism. However, I happen to enjoy hearing their points of view, because they also provide important information needed to make solid investment decisions. You can learn from paid experts too. Likewise, it is important to listen to fierce critics. That's why I listen to Medoraman and Mikem2000 and others who think similarly.

 

For what it is worth I also feel a lot of numismatic coin dealers are giving too much slack. It is all a matter of degree though. The ones that tick me off the most are those who promote their rare coins as a good investment. This causes folks to buy more than they can afford. Very shady in my opinion.

 

Such a tactic could make JPM a lot of money on their gold or silver investments that would be more than washed out due to the devastating impact such a move would have on the rest of their business.

 

That is just a butt load of good common sense in less than 40 words

 

I do not see "dealer bashing" of bullion dealers on here. I "bash" writers who stir up fear and panic in order to sell their newsletters or pm funds because I believe they are deliberately trading in fear and intentional disinformation. One of my better local dealer friends is a bullion dealer, and there are a number of local coin only dealers I wouldn't tell my worst enemy to buy or sell with. I also believe there are some great online dealers like Apmex and others who do a great job supplying the hobby/stacker community. I guess I am just sorry Jolumoga that you get this impression. I hope not from me. There are good, honest dealers and lying snakes in the grass in every aspect of this hobby. No aspect has a corner on either extreme unfortunately.

 

Like I have said, since these are businessmen giving financial advice -- whether directly or in a roundabout manner -- they are fair game for what comes their way, however negative. There is a negative tone about a certain segment of bullion dealers in this forum, but I have no issue with it for the reason stated above. Simply, they are not above criticism and others may have valid points. I also happen to be upset with the cult-like following of the YouTube silver gurus I named earlier (BJF and C. Duane). When I said there was bullion dealer-bashing, I wasn't suggesting that there was anything morally questionable about it -- only that the same traits attributed to these dealers are found in many coin dealers.

 

There are dishonest people EVERYWHERE, so I have a problem with making the statement that coin dealers/bullion dealers are dishonest in general. I have met both kinds, but unless you attend many major coin shows you shouldn't make sweeping comments about the industry/hobby.

I feel we should give people the benefit of the doubt. So, what I'm saying is that we should treat like they're innocent, until proven guilty.

 

I believe for the most part we are very specific about the PM pushers we have an issue with and back it up with the reasons for our opinion. As Chris (medoraman) has stated, we don't have issues with dealers like
Provident and Apmex.

 

Mikem2000, I was mostly referencing this post.