May 1st is the day to buy silver!

I don't think we can say with certainty what 99% of US citizens care about. I think far more than 1% are aware that as the price of gold and silver rise it is an indication of inflation and that something is amiss. People might not even know what is amiss but it's definitely a barometer, and to say they don't care, well maybe they don't right now, but if the price goes up they will. It's really quite simple why they would manipulate metals - they are competition for fiat currency, as sound money. You know this though.

 

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Only insomuch as they have to meet delivery. They have to have enough for that. If they don't own an ounce of silver then they are already having to pay the physical price, not to mention they would be lying about inventory.

Nope. It takes 2 to to tango. There's the LBMA, the Rothschild controlled HKMEX, and others. It's a monopoly based on cooperation. We can loosely deduce that any bank involved in derivatives, which the financial system cannot survive without, would be involved since they are dependent upon the free newly printed money given to them by governments which they then use to suppress metals so that those governments which are devaluing their currency can continue to do so without competition from real money which would undermine the currency if people chose to use metal instead of debt for their money. It's a vicious cycle.

I don't know who ever asserted that they are smart because of this, but to me that looks like an assumption. Buffet doesn't understand gold though, so he's definitely not as smart as his father. Money is more easily made with underhanded tactics than it is with brains, just look at Nicola Tesla.

 

I understand this is the basis of your opinions, just curious. How did you deduce a metal was money "long before it was a commodity"? We have archeological digging proving gold was used as a decorative pretty and in ceremonial garb. We have no evidence I am aware of that people were treating it as "money" BEFORE such decorative uses. In my view all metals at first were valuable since they were harder than a stick. Eventually the rarity of the metal, along with its desired properties, like gold being shiny and pretty so it started being used in preistly garb, made up the relative "values" of metal versus other things. Its very much like a chicken or basket of wheat, eventually people come to a conclusion as to how much chicken is equal to a basket of wheat or an ounce of gold.

What evidence at all do you have to support the assertion gold was "money" long before it was a commodity? My evidence that valuing gold was a learned behavior comes from the history of Babylon and Assyria. Neighboring countries never mined for gold until priests and royalty in Babylon and Assyria started using gold for ceremonial clothing. Their neighbors were taught that gold has a value, then their neighbors started mining it, to trade with them for it. Coveting PM is not a universal human trait, but a taught one.

 

The idea is mainly an Eurocentric one that metals were 'money'. In the ANS vol. 1 , 2013 issue , the Article "The Story of Mexico-Tenochtitlan's Lost Copper Coins of 1544-1550" it tells of the Spanish efforts to switch the Mexitcas from their currency ( commodity ) of Cacao beans and Maize to copper and silver ( revealed to be an effort to get the Indians to think of copper and silver to be more valuable than cacao and copper, and go to secret mines ( with Spaniards following) to take it away from them). Starting in 1544, the Indians dumped between 13 and 27 million coins into the lakes surrounding then Mexico City. The Spanish gave up in 1563, and copper coins didn't return for 150 years. In the meantime traditional indigenous currencies such as the cacao bean, maize, blankets , etc.

And yet these were not just 'savages' as when the Spanish arrived, they described the city as "The greatest city they had ever laid eyes on".

 

Let me ask this to the naysayers suggesting that gold is not money, why are the central banks buying gold? Are they in the business of hoarding commodities?

 

Probably it is a clause in century old charters that is continued. Central banks have to deal with other central banks, and a common means of exchange is necessary. Paper currencies is probably the largest % of exchanges ( digital), so a better question to the yea sayers, is what argument can they propose if they find that the proportion of gold exchange between central banks is just a small fraction of the yearly exchange between them?

 

Regardless of what that fraction is, it's still a mode of exchange between them, which both of them accept and makes it money.

 

Bales of cotton trade hands every day. Is that money? In many parts of the country, you pay off your supply debt by delivering bushels of corn, is that money?

 

It's a small amount of exchange because it is cumbersome at that level and central banks have been net buyers in recent years.

Why is the Chinese government increasing its gold holdings? Why does the U.S. government insist on holding 2x more gold than any other country in the world? (they sold all their silver holdings, why not the gold or some of it at least too? 260 million ounces of gold seems like an awfully lot as a commodity reserve, especially since it has little value as a commodity, whereas silver has a lot of value as a commodity yet those holdings were liquidated?)

 

From central bank to central bank?

 

So its not "money" unless a central bank says it is?

Just trying to understand how there was some holy scripture written somewhere that gold is "money" and not a commodity.

 

You might consider going back and reading Desert Gem's post and try to maintain the context of what we're talking about. That or show me a central bank vault with bales of cotton in it. A simple link would suffice.

 

Btw, there are tons of reasons to want to invest in pm, you think its an easily stored commodity providing inflation protection, its undervalued, its storable oil, you like its beta in relation to other assets, you like holding it, stacking it makes you feel good, you think it looks pretty next to your hair. Fine, all are valid reasons.

I am simply a student of ancient history, ancient coinage, and ancient proto-money, so saying "its always been money" or "all humans covet it" etc just strikes me as a bald face lie. History does not prove this.

I don't care why you wish to own pm, but will dispute this point with anyone wishing to get into long boring arguments. This is my "coin collecting" specialty.

Btw, the earliest metal objects that could only have monetary uses were copper, all around the world. If ANY metal is a "monetary metal", its copper.

 

You talked about a mode of exchange. I pointed out other commodities that exchanged hands daily.

Btw, how do they know how much monetary credit to give for an ounce of gold? Oh yeah, thats right, they look at the commodity value to see how much its worth in DOLLARS, the real money.

 

Since they use cotton in the paper they print dollars on, then that's real money too, right?

Thanks for your propaganda, Mr Rothschild, but the only reason those paper things are money is because the politicians in 1913 fell for the ruse and once they got the Federal Reserve system in place they bought and paid for every vote that has counted since. You're welcome to continue this ruse and sell future generations into slavery, but I'm not willing to live with that and will do what I believe with help break that system.

As far as your "mode of exchange" comment, you're reaching because you know perfectly well central banks don't hold any other commodity in their vaults other than gold.

 

Were you already drunk that early in the day, or do you seriously think that should be two sentences?

 

Am I the only one here who knows English?

Anyway it's not just "Eurocentric", gold has been used as money throughout most of the old world for thousands of years, not just Europe, and not even beginning with Europe.

 

The way I see it money is the thing that I can exchange for goods. Right now that might be dollars, but in order to hold on to value I like to change my "money" into silver. I like "mildly numismatic" pieces like silver dollars or fifty cent pieces pre-64. The price of silver has been going down lately, but I really don't care how much they are worth now as long as in 5 years they are worth more than they are today. I also don't care about the central bank or any of their nonsense. As long as the money they give me works now I'm okay with it. To me and a lot of other people PM's are just an insurance policy.

 

There is no holy scripture and you don't need one, all you have to do is look at the current PRICE OF GOLD, and you can see its valued as money. There is no way on earth it would be worth $1400 as a commodity.

 

What does any of this have to do with the Fed? Why don't you open up a paper money book and see we had paper dollars WAY before the Fed. This is because people prefer paper money. Just another boogeyman pm pushers like to make up to frighten small children.....be careful, the "fed" wil get you.