ASE's vs. Morgan's (The pawn shop showdown)

I have a question for all of you. I have been buying silver bullion, proof sets, silver mint sets, commemoratives, and ASE's for a couple years now. I really don't know yet if I am stacking or collecting. I guess I am in kind of a silver limbo at the moment. Anyhow, there is a pawn shop close by that sells ASE's at two dollars over spot, and Morgan's(all dates and condition) at thirty a piece. So far I have only bought ASE's from them because I am totally ignorant when it comes to Morgans, and I have a hard time paying that big of a markup versus the good prices I am getting on the ASE's. I am a gambler at heart and am wondering if I should buy the morgans in hopes of getting lucky with a good date and mintmark, or stick to what I know and continue buying all of their ASE's?
Now, I know ounce for ounce the better deal is the ASE's, but am I really gambling that much when Morgans seem to go for a bare minimum of thirty bucks on the bay?

P.S. I do know some of the Morgan key dates, and I know just enough about grading to be dangerous (to myself). There are just so many things to look for with Morgans, I feel the opportunity might pass me by.

 

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Circulated common date Morgans are really only worth melt. That is currently just under $25. Although I like the history behind the Morgan better...if you are interested in the silver then I would stick with the ASEs as the price is much better. IMHO, the markup he is charging isn't worth it.

 

Agreed. It drives me crazy when people over price commom circulated Morgans. I know people can charge whatever they want for a coin, but they really are only worth melt with no key date and a worn out condition. I would be all over the ASE's for the $2 premium over the $5 premium for the Morgans.

 

Thanks for the quick response! I know deep down the ASE's are the better buy. I just have that little gambler sitting on my shoulder saying "pssst...hey, I bet there is a hundred dollar morgan in there and you are just going to go the safe route and buy ASE's like a chump?!"

 

IMO be safe and be the "chump!"

 

I like the Morgans. I would rather have a coin that may have some numismatic value on top of it's value as a chunk of silver. You are only paying $5 over melt for a common date morgan, so why not have it? I think they hold their value despite downturns in the price of silver also. Silver dollars go down, but not as much as the lower denomination "junk silver". My other favorite is Franklin halves and of course Walking Libs. They used to be in all the "junk silver" I bought, but now they are scarce and going for $22 and $24 which is above melt. Don't be afraid of the US silver. It's really simple nowadays. You'll pay some extra for silver dollars, but the easy way to figure it is if you are buying for around 22 - 24x face value you are doing okay with US pre-64 silver nowadays. Concentrate on the Frankies. You can't go wrong on them if you see them at around $12 a piece.

 

I agree with you. But the problem is those common circulated Morgan's have no numismatic value. It's all melt.

 

I agree w/ CamaroDMD. Although there is a special place in my heart for Morgans (i think they are a much prettier and more interesting coin), if you are investing in silver vs. collecting for numismatic value, go with the ASEs. And trust me, if you are buying from a coin shop, pretty sure the owner will have reviewed in detail all the morgan dollars. If you find a coffee can of morgans in Grandma's cellar, thats a different story - there you may get lucky.

Either way have fun!

 

If this were fact, silver dollars (pre-21 Morgans in particular) would not regularly sell at a small premium above their silver content. While said premium may not be numismatic in the classic sense, it is a premium nonetheless. Of course not all dealers/sellers are the same, but it does not take one long to realize that when junk is offered at melt, the first to go are almost always the dollars, so a small up-charge somewhat evens out the playing field, and is more the norm than the exception.

That said, a $5 premium is high, especially when the same guy wants only $2 on ASEs, but still, it would not be a bad idea for the OP to put certain dates/mints to memory. While the chances of finding anything truly valuable may be small, stranger things have happened.

 

Silver's too pricey now; too much "hype" about "Mint shortages" etc. I'd like to see premium charts before I'd consider paying dealers 90/10 ASK now: $30 is TOO HIGH.

Look at common date cull Morgans on feeBay (recent complete auctions, NET -13%) for the real market price. Politely offering the avg net +5% sounds fair, but maybe POS needs to drop abit more first.

Sellers imagine it's their market now - but I think intransigent bullish Ag dealers/traders are in for a rude awakening come mid-February/March. We shall see.

 

Morgans are collectible, especially for young collectors. An " older" American coin, that has good availability for a reasonable price is a Godsend to new collectors. It attracted me to the hobby as a child, and as such, I never think of it as " junk Silver." Speculators, such as Mr. Blanco may see it otherwise, but for me, the Morgan has always been an entry to the hobby for many. Should one want to play " stock market" with the price if silver, why not try pure bullion?

 

Sure, I wouldn't pay the same price as a Morgan as I would for an eagle, and for stacking purposes I like eagles better.

However, a lot of 90% US coinage has been getting melted down to meet demand. There could come a day where common Morgans have a premium. Plus it's cool to own something older than any living person. That being said, I have far more eagles in my stack

 

I'm not with you guy's on this one.

Morgans all the way for me. Just look at how old a Morgan is compared to ASE's.
ASE's are mainly just bullion and bullion is boring.

But this is just my opinion.

 

Actually, it is a fact. Now, many dealers sell them for a bit higher of a premium...but with a little searching you can find pre-21 circulated Morgan's for just slightly above melt (competitive to these ASEs). Just because some dealers try and get more for that (and often times succeed) does not mean the coins are worth more than melt.

 

A good price for a common date Morgan now would be around $27, which is only a couple over melt. I would rather have Morgans than ASE's and own a lot more of them. I would rather have almost any date but the 1921, and have found some that are worth way more than melt for the standard asking price. They are out there. I got an 1899 for $30, but that was a rare find. It's worth $200 or more. It was in the bin with the others. Every once in a while even a blind pig finds a truffle.

 

Who said Morgans aren't collectible? I didn't. Please don't misrepresent me.
But that's neither here nor there; THIS IS THE BULLION INVESTING FORUM.
I'm not a PM "speculator" either : again, don't misrepresent me.
Cull Morgans are considered a type of bullion, in the trade. If you disagree with that reality, that's entirely your problem.
As for others "speculating" on whichever coins/bullion they choose, that's their business and not yours chief.
No one must obey/agree with you here. You're awfully disrespectful to imagine otherwise.

 

I like coins that are considered to be "bullion" because that means there's no numismatic premium. That doesn't mean that there will be one down the road. Look at all the Morgans that have one now. That will happen to common date Peace Dollars eventually. I like the Peace Dollar's looks too. It's one of the most beautiful of US coins. I would buy Morgs and Peace dollars all day over the ASE's. I like the Walking Lib side of the ASE, but the back is ugly.

 

I'm not really interested in the bullion/coin debate, but I suppose there's usually/normally some (slight>significant) numismatic premium on coin.
Look at the price differences between 1ozt Engelhard ingots (or some other basic bullion) and "unc" ASEs (which many here consider bullion.) However slight, that difference is a numismatic + monetary premium; it fluctuates! Suppose that difference (now, a trifle) will one day herald the collapse of the USD - when normal folks really want those modern US Ag bullion coins and be willing to pay gouging premiums.

Assume a 20 ozt purchase & $25.s/h:
Today on APMEX POS @ 31.80, the lowest '.999' Ag (random ingots) sell @ 33.49 (x 20 +$25. = $695. or $34.74 ozt. ) .... 9.25% premium over POS
2/1/2013 on APMEX POS @ 31.80, the lowest '.999' Ag (random rounds) sell @ 34.49 (x 20 +$25. = $715. or $35.74 ozt. ) .... 12.39% premium over POS
2/1/2013 on APMEX POS @ 31.80, the lowest ASEs (20 random years) sell @ $36. (+$25. = $745. or $37.25 ozt. ) .... 17.14% premium over POS

For 2/1/2013, the basic bullion coin premium looks to be ~6.3% and the US coin 'numimatic' premium 1.6% over cheap bullion coin = 7.9% over basic bullion ingot. But keep in mind that 17.14% over POS, the big picture... fwiw, ASEs on feeBay today sold at exactly the same rate.

Does a 17.14% on ASEs sound steep, and can you buy 20 ozt cheaper at your LCS? Maybe, it depends. But there's always (some) numismatic premium w/ US coins... unless you find someone liquidating his/her stash in desperation. CL might be cheaper, caveat emptor, etc. Just my $0.02

 

Thanks for all the infomation everyone. I do think I should clear the air a little bit. If the premiums on Morgan's were equal to that of ASE's, I would buy Morgan's all day long as a hedge against falling silver prices. My issue is paying over double the premium. I only buy silver as a hedge against inflation to begin with, so if I can get some collector value along with bullion, all the better. I decided that until I educate myself on Morgan and Peace dollars, I will stay with something I can't screw up until the premiums are more in line with each other. That said, I got five 2013's today for three bucks a piece over spot. Happy stacking!

 

With all due respect, sir, if you wish to dismiss the reality that junk dollars regularly sell at a premium, you might as well use the same logic for any and all coins that carry any type of premium, including numismatic. If one needs to do "a little searching" to find such coins at melt, this should tell you something. Please understand that on a personal level, I agree with you, but we do not set the trends. I've long paid a small premium for junk dollars (over other denominations) only because most people I deal with are more than willing to pay a premium when buying, and this is all the proof I've ever needed to see that such coins generally have a certain value above that of their silver content.