A Bill to Register Buyers of Gold and Silver Coins

The hand of big brother is getting ready to slam down on ya.

They are gonna start requiring permits for yard sales, and flea markets.

They are gonna start making you keep a record of whatever you sell, and making you pay income tax on it.

Even Susie's lemonade stand is going to be taxed. Mark my words.

The day of under-the-table, tax-free money, is coming to an end. The US Government is gonna do what it can to squeeze every last cent out of you, while at the same time flat lining wages, while the cost of goods and services are on the rise.

The sooner Americans wake up and realize that there is no end in sight for this corruption and greed, and start anew, the better.

 

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Stop the political or the thread will be removed.

 

People in Greece are bypassing taxes. They are using new "TEM" barter currency instead of Euros or the drachma for that matter as both a rebellion against austerity and even more so out of necessity because of the poverty it has caused.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17680904

 

Huh?

This whole thread is political.

1 [usually treated as singular] the activities associated with the governance of a country or area


[FONT=Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif]​Anything that discuses what the government does, it politics. Talking about the US mint, is politics. Talking about this bill, is politics. [/FONT]

 

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These are not within the definition, they are silly speculations based on paranoidal political rantings, so get real.

 

precious metals have become a rather political topic.

 

It doesn't have to be. Which one do you think will disappear if it continues? For those who do wish to continue posting about bullion, it is yours to possibly lose. There is a separate forum for Politics, religion ,and world events ~ This is not it.

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100% true!

 

Why, because they have value?

 

I try not to talk about PM's because most people think they have real money now, and I don't want to disabuse them of that notion.

It worries me, because we are the only ones who have PM's and that may not be good because laws like this could be passed out of ignorance.

 

I think it has more to do with unreported income / sales and taxes than anything. Keep in mind that not only is the federal government is feeling a revenue pinch, but state and local governments are too. Precious metals have always been a fuzzy area as far as taxes are concerned.

 

I wish I caught this thread before 3 pages of political discussion.

I have nothing against the political bashing of this bill (personally I support that), but rather I wanted to discuss the practical implications on the coin collecting community if this bill passes the house.

As I read the third house amendment to the bill (don't know if the amendments mean the Senate has to vote on it again or not??), it would imply that the House is taking this bill serious (unfortunately).

As I read the third amendment, they are guaranteeing that this bill will apply to coin dealers at coin shows.

As a practical matter, I find this bill to be very frustrating.

First, the reporting requirement applies to all transactions over $250. Basically, you can only buy a single 1/10oz gold eagle or a couple silver coins before this bill applies.

Second, they are requiring us the coin seller to provide "Proof of ownership". They don't define what constitutes "Proof". Is it as simple as signing a form, or is it more.

Third, they are requiring coin dealers without a storefront to register with the state at least 30 days before they transact business. Registration is not free.

Fourth, they are requiring all transactions to be reported to the sheriff by the following day. Dealers without a storefront (aka coin show) must report all transactions by 6am the following day. How does that impact Saturday sales?

Fifth, for transactions over $500, the dealer must maintain all records for at least 5 years (why do they have to maintain anything if they have to report all transactions by the day after the sale??)

I could keep tearing it apart, but I think that is enough to get it started. Anyone who lives in Illinois should call their Illinois Representative and ask those "practical" questions. I have no idea if the congressman are even thinking about coin collectors, or are they simply focusing on stolen jewelry in their debates. Personally, I don't see the point because I live in Illinois and usually the police don't even investigate burglaries unless someone was hurt or politically connected. They just want to take the report and leave.

 

they are a potential alternative to fiat currency

 

Oh yeah, forgot a huge "won't somebody think of the children" question.

How does this impact children trying to "upgrade" coins in their collection? We teach children to buy what they can afford, then upgrade as they can afford to. It is very common for young children who take coin collecting serious to manage to get coins valued over $250 (not intrinsic value, but rather numismatic value).

Does this bill kick in because the coin is valued over $250 or is it exempt because there is less than $250 worth of silver (calculated by weight*spot value)?

A child typically would not have the positive ID required under this bill in order to complete the transaction. Or would the bill only apply if the net difference of the trade exceeds $250?

A lot of unanswered questions.

 

That's the real reason - tax revenue. I live in a state that has a sales tax on all coin and bullion purchases. It doesn't hurt collectors much, but it is a large distortion to the bullion market.

 

The way it works is that both houses of a bicameral legislature have to pass the identically same bill for it to go to the executive for signature/veto.

If the Illinois lower house passes the unamended bill, that's it. If they pass it with any amendment, no matter how minor, it has to go back to the Senate. Then if the Senate approves the lower house version, it goes to the governor. If they make further amendments, it goes back to the lower house. In theory this could be repeated numerous times.

(If either house votes it down anywhere along the way, it's a goner.)

 

I own some coins, silver no less, that have been in my family for over 100 years. But how can I "prove" I own them? Do I have to conduct a seance and call up my great great grandfather and have him testify under a seantic oath that the coins were his and I am his heir?