Morgans At Spot or Below, on eBay

I think of most worn Morgans as scrap, basically bullion (intrinsic rate on 90/10). On eBay, I see quite a few August auctions where Winning Bid + S/H was ~-1% > -2.8% below Spot. Those are the most successful bottom-feeders.

In the middle of the completed auction list, a mix of good and worn coin lots ranged from 16% to 45% Over Spot (intrinsic.) Presume the better lots tend to sell higher to collectors looking plus the factor of POS volatility, so bullionists chasing Morgans should bid for LESS than 10% Over Spot at all times. I'm also guessing the quiet and disciplined acculator might bid junk lots +3% Over Spot, no more, and expect to lose far more often than win. Per ~20 auctions, how many would this strategy win?

What's the LCS premium on junk Morgans, nowadays? 12%? 15%?
Thanks.

 

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In Las Vegas the LCS buy/sell on cull Morgans is $24.21/29.94.

 

In South Florida, from my experience, the average sucker who brings in a Morgan dollar to a coin shop may get about $15. I can buy one in good to almost uncirculated condition for about $30, and if I buy Morgans in bulk maybe for $26-27 each. I can get sliders or barely uncirculated Morgans for $40-42.

 

ouch. you can get unc morgans a lot cheaper than that online

 

Well then, let me know where (unless your source is secret). On Apmex and Mintproducts.com (the two cheapest websites I have found so far), uncirculated Morgans go for $46-48. I also know that many dealers, especially at coin shows, sell AU coins as BU, but in my view that practice should stop. I also know that beaten up Morgans on eBay sell way above spot, so eBay prices for uncirculated Morgans are likely north of Apmex's. Also, I'm referring to Morgans from 1878-1904.

 

could have swore my last AU were high 30's. maybe you're buying an even higher grade, sorry. for bulllion purposes what's the diff between a 1921 morgan?

 

Thanks to all. VERY INFORMATIVE. This is not what I see in the Boston Metro, charging much higher prices ($200. - 300.!) not what I call 'fair' but that stock isn't moving either. Smart money buys online.

An LCS that isn't selling is more a horde or treasury than a 'store' IMO.

Here's an idea to find the dealers and LCS offering the most competitive prices:

Focus on coin/bullion markets in areas hit hardest by the New Depression.
Focus on states: say Nevada, Florida, Arizona, California.
In addition to major metropoitan areas, maybe by county? (NV) Nye, Lyon & Mineral Co.

It's online work, contacting people you don't know, but I suppose that in areas where you can't find great deals this is an alternative to eBay.

I do strongly believe a relationship with a reputable dealer is worth a premium - just not an insane one, LOL I'm still not sure what that premium should be - 10-15% over eBay?

 

On another thread, I just took a 1921-S Morgan "UNC BU" into a very reputable LCS, to see it's REAL value. The dealer would pay $27.50 (POS @ 34.28) for a nice-looking common-date Morgan, unslabbed.

jeffb mentioned he'd expect a dealer to offer right around melt, maybe a dollar or two above, for common Morgans. That point is correct, the dealer offered THIS, in fact.
(On CT some mistakenly conflate 'melt' with 'Spot' ; you can see the stark difference here.)

In this case: POS @ 34.28 Fri 11/30/2012
1) "Melt" is currently $25.50, ~ $8.8 or 17.4% UNDER SPOT. ('Cull Morgan' or melt rate at a Massachusetts LCS)
2) "Numismatic Premium" is hypothetically ~ $2. or 7.8% OVER "Melt"
3) "Real numismatic VALUE" is a Loss, ~ $3.35 or 10.9% UNDER SPOT. ('UNC BU Common Date Morgan' BID at a Massachusetts LCS)
4) eBay Completed Auctions ~$35 (avg; same date, approx condition) net -13% fees = $30.45 or ~Spot/Intrinsic.

Not sure what I paid for the coin in the early 1980s, but I'll guess ~$23.
Given this example, I'd say Common Morgans were a terrible investment LOL
But SELLING better common dates, fleabay is probably better than the LCS: you have a decent chance of realizing Spot/intrinsic (but not always so much for cull Morgans I saw.)

fwiw

I have no idea what a Dealer's BID was, circa 1983, as a %age. What was typical in the early-mid 1980s?

 

does anyone care about 1921 morgans? there are millions of them

 

It would have to be a stunning or MS65 slabbed 1921 Morgan to get me to pay more than $5 over melt.

Recently my LCS jumped the price in Morgans in junk condition to $30. He came to the realization that he had a guy coming in every few days and scooping up Morgans at melt. That guy was turning them on ebay in the low $30's.

He still sells me dimes and halves at a little under melt. This is not a place I would sell to. He also runs a pawn business and usually offers 16-18x.

 

Indeed. And there are dozens of Common Date Morgans likewise worth little over Melt.
That is, LESS THAN Spot (at weight/purity) and essentially NO NUMISMATIC VALUE at all, factoring Loss... even @ UNC/BU grade.

A Race-to-Bullion it is...

 

Why do you think morgans are worth more than this?

 

Here in NH i usualy see scrap morgans going about 30 each with anything of a decent quality at least 40-50
Sell price is usualy 20-25 on junk.

 

you did take into consideration the spot price in august right? i have never seen a silver dollar in any condition for below melt on ebay

 

What are you calling "melt" easj3699? Melt is a scrap BID from a dealer or refiner; varies by locale & business. Do you have a melt price record, to share?

I have seen cull Morgan auctions close below the coin's intrinsic Silver value by that day's Spot. (That's not melt, but I suppose your intent.)
It's rare, but it can happen with the outright 'junk' ; I was surprised but not sure what particular factors drove those (fluke?) auctions, either.

 

I went to my lcs last night and actually asked how much junk Morgans were going for, he said the ones that were worn where the date is barely visible he is selling for spot because they are just a chunk of silver now. Others that were in a bit better shape were selling for $30 and so on.

 

Not sure where you're located, I live in NH too and that sounds similar to the lcs I go to on Granite St in Manchester. He was selling 1921 with barly visable dates for spot.

 

This is helpful info and makes sense, thanks!

o.k. so if POS $33. (12/4/2012) the intrinsic Silver in a Mint-tolerant coin is $25.52.
A well-worn Morgan weighs 25.2 - 25.73 g (cited by blaubart 6/13/2012; ckachu16 6/10/2009) and 'normally light' ~26.15 g (EvilKidsMeal 4/18/2011) instead of the Mint Full-Weight 26.73 g

So-called 'melt' (intrinsic ) for normally light would be $25., and $24. - 24.60 for well-worn Morgans. A NH dealer's BID @ $20 is a 17% - 20% discount; that sounds like real Melt to me.

A NH dealer's ASK @ $33 "selling for spot(Silver)" for a normally light Morgan would be 32% premium. But I think you're calling 'Dealer's Spot' the Mint full-weight ($28.36) at purity for a well-worn Morgan; that's a premium of 13.4% - 15.2% over intrinsic, factoring weight loss.

Lightly-worn Morgans for $30. is ("a dollar or two more" as they say) includes marginal numismatic value and sell at a 20% premium over Intrinsic, factoring weight-loss.

The difference between the BID ($20.) and the ASK ($30.) seems high. Hopefully, that LCS offers abit higher Bid for decent Morgans. As I wrote, the Boston LCS offered $27.50, but I'm not surprised different dealers have different rates.

 

No it doesn't. Melt value = the current spot value. There isn't any confusion on this from people who actually hold physical PM.

 

Get better informed, kid:
http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?7520-The-difference-between-quot-Spot-quot-price-and-quot-Melt-quot-value