Tungsten Bars Worry the World

Another disgusting article relating to China counterfeits.
I hope this isn't a duplicate post.

http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/en/alloy11.htm

http://www.chinatungsten.com/

 

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They really made coin collecting difficult over the last few years withso many counterfits.

 

Agreed. Unfortunately, theft, fakes and ripoffs are part of Chinese culture going back centuries.

 

This prospect is one reason why I prefer fractional gold as well as silver. Of course there are plenty of silver fakes, but as long as you stick to smaller denominations you have less chance of getting a fake, and if you do get one you aren't losing as much value.

 

I hear you. When it comes to buying gold coins I buy from the mint or graded coins from dealers.

Mike

 

And the same could not be said about us? Just because the actions of a relative few are a negative, there is no reason to condemn the entire country, no less for hundreds of years. The fact is that if there were not ready and willing US buyers, the few Chinese that produce such things would have no market here.

 

nice Chinglish !

 

Most of the counterfeit coins sold on eBay are of Chinese origin. It is probably an accurate statement to write most counterfeit goods are produced in China.
Some would argue fraud, deception, and shady business practices are ingrained Chinese culture.

http://www.muddywatersresearch.com/

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/ViewNews.aspx?id=22939&terms=%40ReutersTopicCodes+CONTAINS+'ANV'

 

This is the first time I ever remember reading a post blaming the buyer for a counterfeit. Amazing, simply amazing the way people think! I assure you that there is no market for counterfeits, and the blame rests entirely with the criminals.

 

No surprises' here chinese have been cranking out fake silver rounds (lead alloy) for a while and now we are seeing fake tungsten bars. More reasons to stay away from Bars or even bullion and stick with some rare issues you can grab for spot.

 

Regardless of what you may wish to believe, there absolutely IS a market for counterfeits in this country. So-called "criminals" or not, if these people were not willing to buy such things, who do you think the Chinese would sell to? Do you really believe the Chinese are the ones passing off all counterfeits, and that our fellow countrymen have no part in it?

As for always blaming the buyer for a counterfeit, I said no such thing. Whatever level of blame one may deserve all depends on their intentions. The guy who thought he was buying genuine has no blame, but the guy who knowingly passed it off on him does. So much for the obvious.

I could not agree more.

 

It won't be long now before anti-tungsten measures will be standard!

These stores selling tungsten bars will prove a boon in the long run.

 

That's carrying the "blame the victim" consciousness too far. Nobody intentionally buys a counterfeit at full price. And like it or not, China is perhaps THE biggest problem. Your reasoning is like saying rape is okay because women go to places where they are in danger, or credit card fraud is okay because people own credit cards, or selling fake pharmaceuticals is okay because people need medication, or burglary is okay because people didn't sufficiently lock up their homes. Your reasoning is the creepiest I've ever encountered.

 

Not the the same extent, no. Thefts and ripoffs, sure, but not so much with counterfeits. Producing counterfeit goods is too much work, and the average card carrying union member in the manufacturing industry doesn't want any part of that!

 

"Producing counterfeit goods is too much work, and the average card carrying union member in the manufacturing industry doesn't want any part of that!"

Add criminal penalties which maybe lacking in China.

 

I didn't want to get too much into politics, but yes. Add obfuscation by the government and you have the perfect haven for counterfeiting.

If you find a counterfeit item, whatever it may be, and you track it's origin to China, that's where your investigation ends, because China certainly isn't going to cooperate.

You can also do a cost/benefit analysis on counterfeiting in China vs the US. Workers can earn higher wages producing legitimate goods here in the US than workers in China can. The chances of getting caught and prosecuted here in the US are probably higher, but prisons here in the US are like resort hotels compared to prisons in China. When you consider that most criminals assume they won't get caught, I think the benefit side of the equation is more of a factor. Workers/organizations in China stand to benefit more from producing counterfeit goods than Americans do.

 

This is why I recommend sticking to coins for gold purchases. It's very difficult if not impossible to produce a gold coin that a pretty simple fisch tool or similar gauge can't detect.

 

Its good advice, but I would simply tell everyone to be leery everywhere. With gold as high as it is, even a 1 ouncer is a candidate to be drilled into the side, remove some gold, replace with tungsten, and fill the hole.

Personally I would pay attention to the design closer nowadays, (make sure you are convinced its not a counterfeit), and look at the edges. Any kind of edge damage and I would not buy.

Honestly, it may get to the point where I would recommend buying slabs. Not for the grade, but for the verification of authenticity. That is the part of slabbing I have always supported.

 

Except for my first gold purchase, everything has been slabbed, as you say, for authentication more than the grade, although the grade may be important too in some cases.

 

I started collecting gold coins in '09 and have either bought from the Mint or slabbed coins from major dealers.
I'm saddened the hobby has come to this but it is what it is.

Mike