Fake gold bars turn up in Manhattan

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by midas1, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. odhinn

    odhinn Junior Member

    I've been doing some reading about detecting counterfeit gold and haven't seen this, so my question --

    is there an inexpensive method for the average joe like me to detect counterfeit gold? e.g. I'm at an auction and a Krugerrand comes up, how would I be able to tell it's fake if the visual appearance, size, and weight are correct?
     
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  3. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Currently with well known bullion coins such as AGE, Krugerrand, Mapleleaf, if the appearance, weight , and diameter/height is correct, your chance of getting a fake such as gold plated tungsten is very small. Most inexpensive methods are the use of chemicals or the heat transmission comparators that Jewelers commonly use, but those are surface detectors and basically useless for thick plated tungsten. I suspect many jewelers that buy chinese produced gold rings or findings ( ring part to add a stone to) are facing such a problem and not as aware as those in numismatics.
     
  4. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse


    Love that typo! ;)
     
  5. SPP Ottawa

    SPP Ottawa Numismatist

    Scary stuff!!! Isn't tungsten slightly magnetic?? A simple powerful swing magnet, like ones geologists carry in the field, might work...

    I imagine it only will be a matter of time, before someone starts messing around with larger silver bars....
     
  6. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Some tungsten as tungsten carbide has been "cemented" together with either cobalt or nickel, or both to make "homeopathic" or "magnetic healing etc." bracelets or jewelry. It is slightly paramagnetic whereas gold is not, but if it manufactured with an organic binder such as epoxy rather nickel or cobalt, it attracting to a strong magnet might be hard to detect.

    Site mentioning the ultrasound type device used to verify some gold holdings:
    http://www.gizmag.com/ge-detectors-fake-gold/19621/

    and for those techie who want to learn more....but I couldn't find a price :)
    http://www.ge-mcs.com/en/ultrasound/portable-flaw-detectors/phasor-series.html

    Jim
     
  7. Juan Blanco

    Juan Blanco New Member

    I want to bump this post. Certain points warrant clarification!

    Some articles imply "Ibrahim Fadl" was the retail seller ("reputable merchant") of the duff bar. Not so. Another article explains abit more but not the whole story:

    Presumptions! How do we know Mr. Fadl is 'a reputable retail Gold dealer' as FauxNews says? How big is his "shop" really, and what's going on here? And who is the "well-known Russian dealer" who cannot be named (and went back to Russia?) Sorry folks, the devil's in the details.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/tungsten-filled-gold-bars-found-in-new-york-2012-9

    Ibrahim Fadl (Express Metal Refining Co.) is a very small industrial refiner on the 8th Floor of a jewelers' trade bldg in Manhattan. He's not someone that you or I would ever buy coin or ingot from! Presume he got rooked by another low-level operator (maybe Russian mafia) in the trade, hustling discounted bars. Too bad, but still.

    Much like the wildly overblown brouhaha over 'fake Chinese Gold' back in 2010, this one-time event only hit a lazy/unlucky scrap refiner. EOS.
     
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