Message from Silver Towne

Inquired about the shipping status of an order I placed last week with Silver Towne...for a PCGS70 2012 "S" silver eagle set. Here's their response:

"We are still waiting on the shipments from PCGS we hope to have them soon and all coins will be shipped then. You will receive an email the day the order ships with a copy of the invoice"

In the mean time, they charged my credit card (on August 6), which is legal, but not allowed by Master Card or Visa policy

 

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MintProducts will do the same sort of thing but they are up front about it. Was the dinging of the card a surprise to you YO YO?

 

Coin and bullion dealers frequently use business practices that you will rarely see in any other retail business.

 

Until informed otherwise, I'd assume it was a mistake and not their policy. I'll bet if you call, they would refund you, then charge again once it's ready to ship. Definitely an interesting case, which I will follow...

 

Yes, I guess it was a surprise...it’s a professional courtesy thing for me. Bad enough to be accepting orders for product you don't have (without disclosure), but to actually take money for the vapor-ware is pretty much out there. I suppose that with the really good pricing they had on these sets, ST has been overwhelmed with orders, and that may explain their lack of order processing decorum. They did respond to my email question about shipping status very quickly...so I'll have to give them credit for that.

 

I ordered one set from ST upon the offer and received it yesterday. Then I ordered another one at end of that business day, and it is to arrive today. I'll bet they aren't making it SOP to deal in vaporware. For comparison, I ordered one set from MCM when they announced, which was maybe a week earlier (?) and it is to arrive the day after tomorrow. I'm prone to cut both these guys some slack as they operate in high competition with each other for our business. What I am just as concerned about is back-end CS, when it comes to viewing the product in hand after I receive...

 

So basically ST is shorting ASE sets with the intention of covering later under the assumptions that 70s will be plentiful.

 

Perhaps so...what would be really interesting to know is if anyone's order for PCGS or NGC 70 sets is cancelled due to "lack of product". If that happened to me, I'd really be PO'd...knowing that eBay prices for these sets are running $80 to $100 more than ST's price from last week.

On the other hand, this could be a good thing...indicating that PCGS70 sets are scarce and hard to come by, possibly confirming the observation made by some on this board that there are quality issues with these sets...resulting is significant rarity price premiums yet to be seen. That's pure speculation on my part...just thinking out loud.

 

I wouldn't say 70 sets are necessarily hard to come by, but 70 sets which LOOK LIKE 70s may be.

 

Here’s another data point...for as long as I have been looking at this, the trend has always been that there are more coins in a given grade with NGC holders than PCGS...usually on the order of 3-5 NGC's for every one PCGS. Following that line of thought, I was expecting the same kind of breakdown to apply to the 2012 "S" proof ASE set, but it looks like the spread is much more pronounced. Here are the results of a couple of current eBay searches, all within the broadest "Coins and Paper Money" category:

"2012 silver eagle set 70": NGC = 163 and PCGS = 3


"2012 s silver eagle 70 -ms": NGC = 169 and PCGS = 14

That's more than a ten to one ratio, yet the prices realized are about same.

 

I would be willing to take the leap and say there is no such thing as a 70. This is a marketing gimmick by the grading companies. Try to find a 70 of any type [e.g., bullion or commemorative] in an old ANACS holder. It's all about creating artificial scarcity by determining how many 69s will be given 70 grades. All my opinion, of course.

 

Could have a lot more to do with the speed NGC is returning these back, or the preferences of the people submitting them just as easily as any differences in grading severity, right?

 

70 coins are perfect. They are examined under magnification. If there is one imperfection, then it's not a 70.

MS70 is not a gimmick, there are perfectionists who want a perfect coin. Although I would never pay the extra for a MS70 coin over 69, many people do.

Bullion is common with MS-70 because Bullion is handled much better than circulation coins.

 

I agree with you in principle, however TPGs commonly give 70s on modern bullion type coins with imperfections. Thus shiny spots on matte finish, etc. I know this based on personal experience as well as from John Maben stating it in another thread.

 

That is the problem with ever awarding a 70 grade, by definition you will have "low end" and "high end" 70's. John ALbanese or David Hall I believe wrote an article about this issue back in the 80's talking about it, and why TPG "promised" to never award a 70 grade for any coin. He said it should forever be theoretical.......

 

Did you get an invoice? if so, the item shipped already. Think I got my item in today, but didn't really check the package.

Honestly, should be happy they allow credit cards without extra fees.

 

They do not have to be perfect. I think the highest loupe they will go to look for imperfections is maybe a 5x. Once you start magnifying to higher powers, you will see imperfections. 70s are perfect or close to it with observation by the naked eye only.

 

I think having 70s is good and fine, and it should be attainable: I like that definition better: no discernible flaws under 5x. When I can see plenty of flaws under no magnification, that's some screwed up grading, IMHO.

ETA: now that I read page two

 

^

Agreed.

 

I think 5X and 15 seconds is the way they do it. I don't like the 70 grade because the buyers are paying large premiums for something that may not exist except on the label on the plastic. And once the 70s begin to tone, and they will tone, the difference between the 69 and 70 coins will become even less obvious. Crack them out and see if they get a 70 the second time.