manipulating precious metals without owning actual precious metals

One cannot prove a negative. I don't know WHY I would expect Fatima to understand a fundamental law of logic, but for everyone else this would explain it. Also, Fatima was the one who claimed it, so "it" should have the burden of proof to prove it, which "it" cannot due, but will change the subject 30 times until you forget that fact.

 

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Post 13 is not incorrect. You simply don't understand how commodities work. If you have the ear of the VP of the CME, then it seems to me that he can provide you proof that I'm wrong. You have failed to do this as I am sure that you would if you could. Your laugher is irrelevant.

Furthermore, the VP of the CME also knows to say Comex when it comes to silver.

 

Every single person with any experience in any market knows your post #13 is wrong Fatima. YOU are the one who posted it, how about YOU prove its not a laughable farce of ignorance you once again smeared all over this board?

Btw, I never said I had anyone's ear. Sorry for actually taking questions from this site and asking them to people who actually KNOW SOMETHING, and deal with it daily instead of being "internet experts" in their mom's basement.

 

You and those who have claimed manipulation have responsibility for proving it.

Everyone who was thinking of relying on the information posted on Cointalk regarding manipulation should note this before acting on the assertion of manipulation. You are being intentionally misled.

 

What is wrong about it?

 

But they don't have a responsibility to prove it to you.

 

I just pointed out that the claim is completely unsubstantiated and irresponsible. People come to Cointalk and read for information. They may not understand how poorly sourced much of it is.

 

Yes indeed. And your posts give a great example of this. You first said in a previous post that you have changed your investing habits because you assume that naked short selling is taking place. So this topic comes along about naked short selling being used to manipulate the silver market and you now say that you don't believe it takes place.

Hence one can conclude one of 3 things:

1. You were making it up when you said that naked short selling existed.
2. Making it up now when you deny that it exists unless someone proves you with proof that is satisfactory to you.
3. You really have no idea and you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I tend to go with option 3 based solely on your comment that you don't trade futures, have no interest in trading futures, and no interest in learning about the technical details of such. Not much else to say about this except that it's an example of poorly sourced statements.

 

The topic is not about the stock market, and everyone should note how you constantly use this tactic to cover your errors. When you've been caught in error, you always either deny it with no support or try to change the subject. You are making claims of PM price manipulation with the intent to make yourself appear well informed. This thread has proved, again, that you just make things up. As many others here have also proved, you never man-up to your mistakes.

 

I agree. It's about the silver futures market that is alleged to be manipulated by naked short selling.

 

Alleged is right, since no evidence has been presented.

 

Circumstantial evidence has been prevented here by numerous forumers. You simply refuse to accept it. There is a difference.

 

Nothing has been presented that any reasonably astute investor would use to conclude there is manipulation, which is where we started from.

 

You have already stated that you have adjusted your investment choices because you assume that naked short selling is taking place in the markets. So either you already know this evidence and refuse to share it and disingenuously demand it from the rest of us, or then, by your own definition, you are not a "reasonably astute investor". Your choice.

 

Is price manipulation taking place in the USA commodities markets? Answer: yes according to the UK government, the United States governments. The Bank of England, the United Kingdom's equivalent to the Federal Reserve and which has close ties to all the big western banks of the world has issued this News Release:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/news/2012/065.aspx

"Paul Tucker has made a request to attend a hearing with the Treasury Select Committee as soon as possible following the publication of settlement agreements by Barclays with the Financial Services Authority, the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission and The United States Department of Justice in relation to the attempted manipulation of LIBOR and EURIBOR. Mr Tucker is keen to give evidence to the Committee in order to clarify the position with regard to the events involving the Bank of England, including the telephone conversation with Bob Diamond on 29 October 2008."​

Nobody here has these kinds of resources to investigate price manipulation so it's rather silly to demand that forumers provide it or else it simply doesn't exist. Anyone who understands how the futures market works, the difference between real commodity futures and security futures, what is going on in banking and looking at the pricing vs the economy knows that the market for these types of non-commodity futures is not moving as it should. IMO, the burden of proof is on those who think the futures market doesn't have these issues to come up with a good explanation.

 

I agree. Nobody here can prove price manipulation in PMs, especially the kind that makes the present price far lower than it "should" be. And I agree that there are cheaters out there. But I've never seen any evidence to demonstrate that gold and silver prices have been systematically depressed through manipulation over the past decade.

 

Nobody can disprove it either, so this sort of logic is rather pointless especially when my quotation was removed from the context of a US and UK government and Central Bank statement about price manipulation of the US Futures market by a leading global bank.

Whether you have seen evidence of it or not is only important to you and doesn't constitute sound advice for investing. ..... Especially... since you have said that you don't trade futures, are not interested in futures, and have no interest in learning the details about futures. It's kinda hard to see something when you are not looking. But now that we have established this, it's not issue for me.

What is important for the rest of us, are the facts that have been laid out here as to why people think that manipulation does exist and then people can work it out for themselves if there is price manipulation going on. It's foolhardy to stick ones head in the sand and deny the circumstantial evidence.

 

I bought my first ASE for $5. No matter how much people talk about manipulation, there is no evidence of price supression in the market price. That is the ultimate circumstantial evidence, and fact.

 

I 100% support your right to believe this.

 

I did read an article about investing in precious metals and things you should know. Although the short term markets are highly manipulated but large investment firms and even governments, precious metals still make a good long term investment since the price over the long term rises. It is always better to have the physical metals since if the markets ever crash, those pieces of paper will do you no good. The are a good hedge against inflation since their buying power remains the same. No matter what time period it happened to be, an ounce of gold will buy you a fine suit. I was in a PM shop buying coins around Memorial Day and they said a lot of people were selling to raise money for trips. Doesn't that affect prices as well? How do PMs do during the Summer months typically?