Hello everyone. I am looking for tips on how to detect fake ASE and AGE coins. I'm looking to get into bullion more in the future and want to protect my investment. I have 1 gold eagle I got from the LCS. It is not slabbed (but from what I gather, slabs are counterfeited too). It has the nice high pitched "ting" when you hit it with another coin. Weight is 34gms. Detail looks good and matches up to pictures I find online. The silver eagles I have are similar; they have their own pitched "ting" which seems to be consistent, nice edges, and weight is good. What else should I be looking for? I don't want to risk thousands on an investment if I can't verify that it is 100% real. I have a nitric acid test kit but don't want to ruin the silver eagles with it, maybe on the edge it could be ok? On a separate note, big banks and governments that keep gold and silver in reserve have to worry about this if I do. How do they know this stuff is real? Is a credit suisse bar in assay better than a loose AGE because of the assay?
Best thing you can do, as with any counterfeit, is own a very accurate scale. I'm not aware of a large counterfeit market for these. Just ensure you are purchasing them from a reputable dealer as opposed to jumping on the cheapest price on Ebay.
Definitely the use of a scale is the first step. Also, you can usually tell if a ASE is not made out of silver by comparing its look to a ASE you know is silver. The AGE's may be a little harder to tell.
Eagles are a great coin to pick up for the very reason that you can have certainty with counterfeit testing unlike coins or bars that do not have precisely known dimensions. That being said, you will need to perform a number of tests successfully in order to ascertain that. It must pass all of the following 4 tests: weight, diameter, height, and specific gravity, AND it must then also pass either the ice melt test (silver is the most heat conductive metal) or the rare earth magnet test (silver has just enough magnetivity to slow down a super strong magnet sliding down the coin at an incline) to prove that your first 4 tests weren't duped by an alloy mix. I'm not sure what you'd have to do with gold to discount the possibility of an alloy mix though, only silver.. but the right mixture of other metals can fool the first 4 tests so those are not the end of the line. Or you could just drill it or acid test if you don't care about damaging the coin, or else get a super expensive x-ray gun.
That would give you enough to estimate a good specific gravity value...If your coin had no reeding on the edge, and was flat on both sides ( no raised or lowered features , which eliminates most coins, rounds, bars, etc. Specific gravity is the only thing to tell you the total composition comparison of a coin or bar. Heat conductivity, acid reaction, x-ray spectrometry, or mass spectrometers can only test the surface. Mass spectrometers usually destroys he sample if penetration below the surface of a metal is tested. If you had a top mineralogy research lab, you could be very sure of yes or no. Find a trusted dealer or use the direct US treasury offering of AGE or such rather than buying indirect from a 3rd party on ebay or CL. IMO.
Does seem to simplify the weight, diameter, thickness part but $170 is a lot for that. Does anyone do non-damaging coin assaying? I know with baseball cards you can send it off to be graded and slabbed.
What about a sound test? Silver has a very distinct ring to it that a fake isn't going to have - assuming you have a silver eagle you know is real, compare the sound your known genuine coin had to the new one by flicking it up in the air and listening to the sound it makes. If they sound the same, they're real - if the new one has a different sound, one's a fake. And if you're worried about damage, since it's just your fingernail striking it, there shouldn't be any (noticeable?) damage to the coin if you do the test over a soft surface like a bed. Unless you're buying proofs or MS70 coins, it shouldn't be a problem. I've used this test myself, on BU coins, and I haven't noticed any damage to the coins (though I may just be lucky, please correct me if I'm wrong about the damage it can cause). I don't know if this works for gold, as I don't buy gold eagles, but I know it works for silver. Edit: And if I'd had read your post more thoroughly I'd have seen you already did a sound test. Though hitting them with other coins sound a bit more damaging than a fingernail, so...
^ Angel from my understanding if ASE has thick silver plating sound test will not work too well besides' if it is proof doing a sound test is not a great idea, there is the magnetic slide test (do a search for it in youtube ). As for gold, it also has unique cling but Gold is a heavy metal only way to couterfeit it would be too use tungsten or platinum (latter is unlikely due to spot prices).
Do people silver plate fake ASE's enough to be profitable? Wouldn't the plating need to be thick enough to make the sound distinct? I just looked at 5 eagles, one of them is a 1987 and weighs less than my others, it sounds different but I'm pretty sure its still real. The weight and consistency of the material has to have a constant effect on the sound.
Here's the website of the "Gold Coin Balance." http://www.goldcoinbalance.com/ I use one and it works great! It's much less expensive than the Fisch and this one device works with 7 different bullion coins (Eagles, Krugerrands, Philharmonics, Maples, Buffalos, Pandas and Kangaroos). This tool measures the width, diameter and weight of the seven common bullion coins. $19.95 plus $2.50 S&H is a deal for this important tool.
