A better way of investing in copper

Copper bullion is not the best way to invest in copper. Sometimes the bars can be over priced. A better and cheaper alternative is collecting copper pennies. You can find them in pocket pocket change and if you find any from before 1982 they are 95% copper and 5% tin or zinc. I hope this is helpful to anyone who would like to start investing or anyone that didn't know.

 

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I'll wait.....there's 125 billion of them

 

I think alot of people know this already

 

alot of people save copper lincolns for bullion value. they are worth like 2.2 cents a piece. the bars are just like silver rounds, you can go out and buy them and they look nice.

 

I had bought a couple of copper rounds at the coin shop I have been dealing with. I thought they were neat and had cool designs on them. Pretty much on a whim. Paid $2 for the 1oz and $1 of the 1/2 oz. Found what the price of copper is and realized that I had paid way too much. Oh well, a $3 learning experience.

I have been looking at bullion on ebay and found that the copper has a rediculous markup. Right around double the per lb price. Is there anyway to get it cheaper or does copper bullion just demand that kind of markup?

 

I think it really depends on who stamps the bullion. I don't know were to buy cheaper copper bullion.

 

I have to disagree...they're only worth 1 cent each. If you know someone who's buying them for 2 cents each, let us know...I know I'll sell mine! Because it's not legal to smelt them and refine them into pure copper ingots, cents will never be a wise copper investment. They'll always be worth just a cent.
Guy

 

Depending on quantity, copper pennies on eBay are for sale anywhere from 1.5x to 4x face value. Whether people are buying them, that's another story, but I have heard it said a number of times that people will typically pay 2x face.

 

I disagree Guy. There is no "law", only a treasury rule that has not been tested in courts. I believe when the percentage of copper cents in circulation becomes low enough they will simply repeal it, or if copper becomes valuable enough someone will contest it and win. Either way in the future they will be legal to melt if you wish. Same with nickels. If they change the composition they will keep this rul in place long enough until old nickels are a small percentage of all nickels, or someone will challenge the rule and win in Federal court. Coinage has long been held to be personal property, and the only right the government has a say in is to prevent manipulation for fraudulant purposes.

My problem is to have any quantity of copper worth anything takes up too much space. I have bags of wheat cents I have drug around for years, and they take up too much room as well.

 

Let's say that coins pay 2.5X face value in individual rolls. Then if you invested $10,000 you would have 400,000 pennies. Now forgetting the effort to roll this mass of coins, which I think you need to get 2.5X, then you will have 1244 kilograms of coins. For us metric challenged Americans, this is 2,742 pounds or 1.37 tons.

IMO, this isn't a very convenient.

 

You are correct fatima. It is foolish to pay more than face value for something you can get for face at any local bank. The only reason I can see that these memorial cents are for sale on ebay is either because the seller is trying to find someone dumb enough to pay above face for them (plus shipping!), or the seller is too lazy to find an actual job.

 

Still, I've yet to see anyone actually sell a cent for 2X face, on Ebay or anywhere. If somebody can prove me wrong, I'm begging you to do so, so that I can offer up mine for sale. Nobody has even pm'd me with an offer to buy them for 2X face. So, how serious can it be?
Guy

 

The law/rule in question states:

Any person who exports, melts, or treats 5-cent coins or one-cent coins of the United States in violation of § 82.1 shall be subject to the penalties specified in 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), including a fine of not more than $10,000 and/or imprisonment of not more than 5 years.

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You can find it here: http://www.federalregister.gov/arti...r-treatment-of-5-cent-and-one-cent-coins#p-38

That being said... I personally hoard copper pennies. I pay face value, sort them, and stash them away. The penny (and probably the nickel) will be phased out soon (definitely this decade). At a minimum, the composition is going to be changed for the penny (again) and the nickel. Legislation is already in the works. Some could argue that this alone will cause an increase in value for ALL currently-circulating pennies, but particularly the copper ones.

The details have been mentioned over and over, so I won't draw this out. IMHO, the law just doesn't matter. I also collect silver 'junk' coins, as MANY on this forum do. How many of you melt them down? You don't? Why? Because that would be retarded. And you are not retarded... right? U.S. coins are in an easily identifiable / verifiable 'format.' No one is going to request an assay on a $100 bag of copper pennies, and - perhaps more importantly - no one is going to counterfeit a $100 bag of pennies. Because they would be retarded. I just fail to see why in post after post people automatically assume that penny hoarders are going to melt their stash. Why would they do that? Why would they want to make it LESS authentic? Would Billy Bob melt down his $1000 face 90% junk coins, pour them into bars and stamp them 90% pure, Billy Bob's Metals, LLC, BFE? Yes. If... he's a edited, forum rules. If not, he would keep his junk (heh heh... I said 'keep his junk' ) in its current EASILY IDENTIFIABLE FORM.

Jeesh!

 

I agree sir. I never said they were selling for that much, but then again I don't think junk silver sold for its true value until much later. I like copper, but for PM investing its just way too bulky for me. Right now a nickel in your pocket, every one of them, is worth more to melt. Of course they won't sell for a premium. However, one day, maybe 20 years from now, they will. So today you are right they don't sell for much, but long term not a horrible assumption that they will.

 

Agreed, Chris. Good point made with the silver as well.
Guy

 

Chris, I used to think that also, but when that bank box of "unsearched" cents which were probably mostly clad sold on eBay at 2x face ( $25 ), I was surprised.

But that aside, I still think that saving cents as copper value is not investment as much as accumulation. Copper is too bulky. Like storing a rail car of corn. Storage and security costs will eat you up. Still best, once people gets rid of the idea that all paper is worthless, is to buy ETF for copper ( or their options) ,such as JJC. Many commodity ETF have certain tax complications if purchased outside of IRAs , so research it well. IMO.

 

I've seen rolls of pre-82 pennies at coin shows going from $2.25 - $2.50. I don't know if there are many buyers for these rolls, but they are definitely out there. IMO, much of the premium is for the labor to separate out the copper from the zinc coins. You can most likely bet any key dates are gone from rolls sold like this too.

 

Silver, gold and platinum are true investments. Hoarding copper, let alone investing in copper is not really investing at all. It's the poor man's way of feeling like your Mr. Dow Jones without having to turn on MSNBC.

 

I see the potential, but it does seem like a lot of hard work. Time is money, and you would need a super efficient operation. OMG, do you mean I can get 5 cents back for a can? Pretty soon I am going to have workers bringing in truckloads of cans. Yes, the physical space is something else. As far as speculation on the future of U.S. laws, I believe peoples illusions of protecting the integrity of our laws are just that. When the fiscal demand is there, the integrity of protecting these laws will go out the window. Why else would China be fitting the bill for the shipping of raw material from South America? As long as the U.S. economy stays afloat than I see the 82 pre copper cent binge being a real possibility. China would continue moving migrant workers to the east coast, in support of the industrial base which is needed both domestically and to support the consuming American. They do not have the raw materials to support such a move. Only speculation, but the price of copper will be going up. The U.S. laws are based around the needs of the people, and I assure you the average non collecting cheeseburger eating American could care less about 1982 pennies.

 

Oh, also... I ENJOY sorting pennies. I know, I know... freakshow. I guess it's like some people like planting gardens or painting. I freakin' hate both of those things. I also hate folding laundry - but for some strange reason, I like sorting pennies.

Every so often (rather frequently recently) you see stories of edited electrocuting themselves trying to steal power lines for the copper. Piping in new construction is always at risk. So are air conditioners. You're heard the stories. Copper is not a PM, but the penny and nickel both have a $ face value that they can never sink below (by definition). Unlike the power lines. Oh, and as already mentioned, edited will electrocute themselves trying to get this stuff. You can buy it for half price (pennies). Or, you can ram your F150 into a telephone pole and get it for free (if you survive and are not caught doing it).

I haven't owned a TV for over a decade. You'd be surprised how much time you have by turning off the tube. Remember books? I checked 'em out. Turns out - they're actually awesome. I highly recommend them.