What do yo u think is a proper bullion vs. junk ratio for SHTF seniario?

I imagine if the Dollar does go away at some point it will be replaced with a new currency first, but for those of you that are true Boy scouts and prepairing for a possible period of barter what kind of ratio's are you holding your PM in? I would imagine Gold would be way to expensive for incidentals. so would a 1 oz silver round? Anyone holding a variety of 90% coins for that reason?

It's all really speculative. maybe you'll be able to buy 10 loaves of bread for a rosie. Maybe silver will be worthless and food storage will be the real wealth. I thought it might make for an interesting conversation, and would love to hear all of your thoughts!

I'm currently buying 1oz silver rounds as I can and roll searching for junk. I would like to have more 90% but just can stand the thought of paying for it when I can get it for free going through rolls!

 

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In your scenario a bullet would be worth more than its weight in gold. If food was scarce would you trade it for PM? IMO hording PM are only good to fight inflation.

 

If I had 10 loaves of bread, and could only eat two before they spoil, I would. Then I have something of value that I can use to buy fresh bread when I need it.

Needing a hedge against inflation may be the extent of what will be needed. but even in a "Mad Max" world there would be bartering. I think PM will always hold value if for no other reason than It's What We Know. We could switch to sea shells, If so I'll be coming back from my Florida trip a millionaire!

 

If I had extra loaves of bread in a Mad Max world I'd think myself a moron to trade it for a worthless metal. I'd trade it for some blankets or a gun, or if I had to have metal I'd trade for aluminum or steel that I could forge into something more useful than a coin.

I always love when people bring up these extreme doomsday scenarios. It makes it obviously clear that what we perceive as valuable today is absolutely worthless when it comes right down to survival.
Guy

 

Yes government will respect the constitution and will never ever adopt a policy to fix the price of PMs and force all its citizens to sell the gold below the MV so they can turn it around and sell it for a profit /sarcasm.

 

If it worked this way, we wouldn't need to use cash today either. What if the person doesnt have any guns or blankets for food but has lots of silver? Then you know somebody who will sell you a gun for 10 ozs of silver but youve run out. And the guy with the guns doesnt want or wont accept food in trade.

Hey, they'll take worthless paper or digits in a computer for food. That seems more outrageous than accepting a hard asset to me.

 

What if the guy with the blankets and guns does not want bread, he/she wants apples? the apples guy wants bread, or maybe even more layers of barter would be needed for you to actually get to the guns you need. Silver coin was first used in like 500 BC. I don't expect we will revert back to cave man existence! I don't even expect my premise to be honest with you. I just think it is an interesting topic. I am not a kook.

I'm relatively young. I have a young family with a two year old that I want to ensure I can see healthy and happy through the hard times I do believe are ahead, whatever the extent of that harshness may be.

I've only just developed an interest in politics and economics in the last year or so, so I have no historical background to weigh the things I hear against. I read the bullion boards and repeatedly hear stackers brag about their stacks of PM, Guns, and Food storage. They feel prepared for anything. In contrast my off line social circle gets off work, cashes their check and spends it. They've no interest in economic news, other than to complain that gas is too high. I'm left wondering if those with gun and food storage lockers are the same as the y2k alarmists that hid in their bunkers as the clock struck midnight or if they are wise conservatives preparing for the new life to come.

I'm diversified now. If my PM does nor perform, I figure my mutual fund will, and that my paycheck will remain valuable. I consider myself to be lower-middle class right now as I wait for my wife to finish grad school, so spreading my wealth can also be a weakness. If it plays out that those holding PM end up being the ones with security, I will likely not have enough to make much of a difference. If PM bubble pops before I see it, my other investments will not likely perform well enough to recoup the losses.

Feels like a lose/lose. With a 2 year old little girl that has the potential to amaze I'm determined to find a way to win!

Have I effectively hijacked my own thread at this point?

 

And this is why I got into bullets *before* I got into coins.

Still, you may be surprised at the cost of lead crimped into a brass casing these days.

 

If you have Itunes and an Ipod, check out "The Survival Podcast" with Jack Speerco. He's an army vet, former businessman, co-ceo. He started recording the shows on his way to work on the freeway. Was making 6 figures but got tired of the life and decided to do the podcast full time. So that's what he does now. 1 hour show every day over various topics. Talks a lot about gardening, food storage, weapons, hunting, occasionally touches on PMs. He has a lot to say.

He recently followed through with his beliefs and left suburban Texas for his new homestead (permanent bugout location) in rural Arkansas. I don't catch all the shows but I've been following him off and on for the last couple of years. Probably around episode 800 by now. I think you'd like the show. He just interviewed a guy last week from some country in S. America that did have a financial collapse. That guy actually lived though it and had some good info. They did barter with PMs a bit. Most people wanted to convert their pesos into the US dollar as fast as they could get them. Which is scary because the dollar's going down the same road and there won't be anything for us to convert to.

He said violent crime went up a lot after the collapse.

 

Ditto. I think a lot of people here did.

I know what you're saying.

1200 rounds .40

2003- $270
$2011- $500

 

Yes, food and bullets will be great things to have around were the world to go to pieces, but I contend water will be far more precious than either of those two. If you're considering stocking up on items, be sure to add 5 or 6 of those water pump-filter thingies that you take camping that allows you to drink water from anywhere and not get sick. And pick up a couple dozen extra filter while you're at it. You can live w/o food for weeks but can only go a few days w/o water.

 

Why does everyone always assume that in a SHTF scenario that food will suddenly become scarce?(watching too many mad max movies I assume) If the Economy suddenly collapsed tomorrow there will still be the same amount of food around then there was today. The chickens of the world will still be laying eggs, the cows will still be producing milk. The rain will still fall and the sun will still shine, so the plants will still give fruit. The only thing that will change will be how we pay for them.
Now if your worried about some global apocalyptic disaster, like a asteroid hit or a global nuclear war, all of the bullets you could stuff into your basement and piles of buckets full of freeze dried foods will not do you one bit of good in the long run, you will just be the last person on earth to starve to death.

 

Anyway on the subject of SHTF, just how prepared is prepared? Do you have to be good at subsistence farming and have a defensible/productive plot of land for years and years or would being more prepared than say 90% of others be enough to do the trick? If it's the former, not many urbanites will be doing to well.

Glad to say, I don't think this level of issue will arise anytime soon. My advice, be as prepared as it takes to stop your worrying about it and get on with life.

In my little version of reality, PM is a transition vehicle. A way to avoid being completely raped by 'the powers that be' in the event that 'they' just take the wonderful bits and bytes away from the common man for a time.

 

I guess that depends on where you live, I live only 10 miles from a very large source of fresh water (Lake Michigan). If that goes dry we are all screwed.

 

On TSP, Jack always preaches that it doesn't have to be SHTF for a disaster to strike you personally. It can be a job loss. It might be a natural disaster. He recommends a month worth of food supply stored at minimum. 3 months is better. But a month will cover most events that are the most likely to happen.

He says you have to think about disaster probability. What's the most likely scenario to happen for your location. He concedes that there are some things that no amount of preparation is going to help you. He's said before that if an asteroid is coming that is going to wipe out earth or a nuclear war begins, he will be setting up a lawn chair on his roof with a cold beer.

 

You can grow alot of food on a very small plot of land. Jack says if all you can do for the time being is be 10% self reliant, than you're 10% more than those around you. And encourages people to work towards a higher percentage.

It motivated me to put some raised beds in this year. I only put a few in and we had so much produce we couldn't eat it all. We were giving it away for free. It's amazing how fresh, fresh vegetables can be. You can grow a real tomato with unbelievably strong, earthy flavor, or have a faded green one with no taste at Subway. If you chop a home grown carrot in half, you can smell it from the ground. It's called fresh. lol And is great to enjoy whether the S is hitting the fan or not.

Jack hates the big cities. He believes it is not natural for so many people to be condensed into small areas like that. And you're right, they won't be doing well if things start going bad.

 

It is a combination of two factors:
1) most people don't have much food stored, and need to go to the store to replenish their supply relatively often, and
2) most stores only have two - three days worth of food on hand.

If something happens to disrupt the transport of food to the stores for more than a few days, people are going to start running out of food. The longer transportation is disrupted, the more people will run out of food. The food still exists, but it isn't somewhere I can get to.

 

So what is your (whoever is reading this) definition of SHTF?

Will we see a slow down like the 80's?
the Next Great Depression?
The collapse of the dollar?
Something worse?

I would say the train is already off the tracks and barreling towards a tree. Do you still think there is hope that the Debt, and Dollar bubbles can be turned around or do they have to pop?

 

Wow...just wow! Tell that to the people of New Orleans of just a few short years ago. Even in today's situation where a disaster struck a very small region, food and water was nowhere to be found. The food doesn't just appear at the market for you to buy. People have to physically grow large amounts to feed huge populations, using sophisticated and costly machinery. Most of the US farmlands lie in areas that require irrigation. Then you have to transport it, and in a timely manner as it won't last long. So no, the current food supply won't just continue on it's own...a perpetual cash crop of survival. It takes a ton of work.
Guy

 

If SHTF the only thing of value would be food, water, and shelter. Anything else would only have value because of its ability to get those three things.