Are there shops anywhere which have gold eagles in stock and will sell them for cash at competitive prices (less than 5% over spot) to walk-in customers, with no paperwork or ID required for sales under $10,000? I've read that maybe Phoenix, AZ has such shops, but haven't had a chance to confirm this firsthand. I've bought by mail order in past years, but I don't want to continue producing paper trails showing that I buy gold. I normally buy 5-6 ounces once every 6 months. There will still be the paper trail showing that I withdrew cash from the bank, and I can't do anything about that, but I don't want any kind of record that I spend the cash on gold. I travel frequently as part of my job, so if there are shops in major cities which meet my needs, I'll probably be nearby sometime soon. I am aware of the upcoming IRS 1099 problem starting Dec 31 this year. Fortunately it hasn't kicked in yet. I'm also aware that many states and cities charge sales tax on gold eagle purchases, which makes the prices uncompetitive for walk-ins. Fortunately there are still some places which don't charge any such tax.
Have you tried the larger coin shows where you may be able to buy AGEs from reputable dealers w/o paper trail?
Welcome to CoinTalk. One thing to consider is that the paper trail may be important for insurance purposes. You are more likely to lose a coin through theft or natural disaster than by confiscation.
If I want to travel to the city where the coin show is being held, at the same time that the show is being held, then I'll have to pay for the travel expense myself, rather than piggybacking on my work travel. I need shops which are in business year-round, so I can drop by when I happen to be in town. In other words, buy coins like I buy diesel fuel and vehicle parts; they're available on demand. Since bullion coin dealers are much less widespread than gas stations and auto parts stores, I need to know where to find them, especially in tax-free places. Are there still such dealers, or have the various anti-money-laundering laws and regulations resulted in all the dealers demanding ID if you walk in the door with $7,000 in cash and want to buy 5 coins? I am aware of the advantages of having a paper trail. I've considered the tradeoffs, and decided I'd rather not have one.
Ted: Here's a link to the ANA Dealer Directory. You can search for coin shops (who may sell bullion) based on where you will be traveling, call ahead to ask what the shops have/sell to see if it might be worth your time, figure out tax issues in advance, etc. For coins shows you can consider watching coinshows.com It's easy enough to watch monthly schedules for up coming annual (or more frequent) events, so that you can plan ahead to drop in if you will be in town during a given show. Welcome to CoinTalk.
If you ever get to Portland Oregon, I know for a fact there are several places downtown that you can get the coins you seek. Bonus...no state sales tax.
Something to start with on kitco.forums: Sales tax exempt states on gold silver Be sure to double check to verify any info found posted on forums.
I don't worry that much about a "paper trail". I try and keep good records to ward off the tax man should he cometh. When you think about it, it would be extremly difficult to stop any type of paper trail from being generated. I think the trick is to make it harder to uncover. Would the IRS or a prying soon-to-be-ex-spouse find it with little effort? Banks keep transaction records for seven years. How are you going to get a large quantity of cash? Even if you have alot of money in the bank it's not easy to convert it to cash without drawing attention. I speak from experience. Unless you have a businesss that deals alot with cash you're going to have a hard time. You can sometimes find bullion coins at pawn shops but the premiums are high (close to 10%). You have to pick your poison, cash, reporting, premiums, record keeping .... However, for most things, except for maybe murder, the longer it's been since you did whatever it is you did, the less others will care or struggle to prove it.
Just wanted to mention that Oregon does not have a sales tax at all. I was not aware that some states exempt PM's. Good to know!
Krispy, Thanks for the ANA Dealer Directory link. Today is Sunday, so I'll call a few shops tomorrow. I've tried calling a few from Yellow Pages listings in the past, but got various unsatisfactory answers, ranging from state or local sales taxes, to the shop saying they only do mail orders and don't sell bullion for cash to walk-in customers. Maybe I'll have better luck this time. Soaring Eagle, Regarding Portland--no local sales tax either? There are some states which have no sales tax but have major municipalities which do have their own sales taxes. Do you have phone numbers for any of the shops you're talking about? Fifty, I'm not worried about the IRS right now; we're not required to pay the IRS, or keep records, when we buy gold coins. What I'm worried about is envy. The USA is in a very unstable economic situation, and we're already at the point where a lot of Americans envy people who work hard and save money, and it will be very tempting to change the tax system to tax wealth instead of (or in addition to) income. At that point, the IRS can review paper trails and come after people who have savings in gold or any other form. I pay almost all of my expenses with cash, including rent, so I withdraw about $400 from the ATM every week. I can double it, and use the cash to buy a pound of gold every year, which leaves no paper trail except one showing that I spend a lot of money. If I trade the cash for gold every 3-4 months, then I don't lose much interest by holding cash. That way, my financial paper trail looks like most other Americans: I'm a big consumer, and waste all the money I earn instead of saving it. When the time comes for the American electorate to say, "they have money, and we're broke, that's not fair! Let's take it!" I won't be one of the people with a target painted on my back. On the other hand, if the record ten years from now shows that I've been buying a pound of gold per year, I'll be a prime target, since I'll be obviously one of those evil people who saves instead of spending. I've already accumulated 20oz of gold by mail order over the past two years, and I regret creating that paper trail. I could fix the problem by selling the coins by mail and depositing the check to my bank account, then withdrawing cash, but I doubt that 20oz will ever make me a big target.
I've never paid sales tax on bullion coins or collector coins only taxed on coin collecting supplies.
South Dakota is tax exempt on ALL coins and currency. Our coin club pushed this through our state years ago. But you might want the invoices for your purchases so when you go to sell or your kids go to sell that they do not have to pay so much in taxes to the Federal Government. Most buyers will give you a invoice when you sell. ( the legitimate dealers anyhow ).
Minneapolis has a few good shops, one in particular is American Rare Coin & Collectibles. They're on the 'net. (I have no stake in them, DYODD.) One downside is that MN has sales tax, and at their location that equals 7.275% which really adds up if you're in quantity. -K
I'm not aware of any shops that keep gold eagles in stock in my area, but can tell you in Washington state there is no sales tax on coins (or safes). I don't know of any shops around here that don't require paperwork for $10K+ though.
I went in 2 coin shops yesterday and they preferred to take cash with no paper trail so there ya go. We don't pay tax in Canada.
