APMEX America The Beautiful 5 oz update

5 oz America the Beautiful Coins -- Not meant for the average citizen

From what I have seen, the authorized distributors are holding onto the coins and not responding to inquiries -- waiting on prices to rise or figuring out how to charge the highest price while still remaining in compliance with the new guidelines? I thought distributors were supposed to distribute. As usual with anything related to the Mint, it is the citizens that pay through the nose.
I saw the Home Shopping Network offering them for $5,000 a set yesterday evening (January 5th). They said they had 210 sets. This system is working out great for the middle men.
I called the Mint and was told to call (202) 354-7500 if I had a complaint. I was told this was the office in charge of bullion coins. There was a recording, but you can leave a message.

 

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I completely agree - I think they are finding loopholes in having the coins graded. check out this other thread, if you hurry there may still be a few left for the average man... http://www.cointalk.com/t149179/

 

Well, what I want to know, (the reason why I registered on this site today), is how one eBay seller is offering over 60 sets of these coins, (I counted at least 60 but I think there is more).

I won't mention his ID because I think it may be a violation of the rules of this forum, but he is selling at least 50 sets at a price of $2700.00 each!

There is no way that he could have obtained these without some sort of foul play. You would think the Mint would be looking into this.

If anyone knows anything about it, I'd sure like to be filled in.

 

There's no reason NOT to mention the sellers name here. CT members often unite and report misuses and abuses of the coin community. I'd like to have 50 sets to sell, but that's not going to happen soon. I'll wait and see if my pre-order will be fulfilled.

Bruce

 

Well, okay. The eBay seller's name is coinsantiques.21

However, if you look at any of his auction pages he has "associate accounts", those being:

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+0][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]coinsantiques.10, coinsantiques.11, coinsantiques.13, coinsantiques.15, coinsantiques.21, coinsantiques.22, coinsantiques.25, coinsantiques.12, coinsantiques.14, coinsantiques.16, coinsantiques.17 and coinsantiques.18[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

and he is using many of these "associate accounts" to also sell ATB 5oz sets.

 

Well I can bet you one thing - he got them from the Gold Center in Springfield, IL as they are in his home town if you look at the bottom of his listing. Yeah that is some massive BS. if he has gotten his hands on 50 sets and selling them at $2700 each he is making a $100K profit give or take. You can bet your ass with that kind of money on the line that he is in kahoots with someone.

 

Not necessarily. One way he or she could have done it is to hire 50 day laborers to buy one set of coins each. The "in person, cash only" sales policy made it easy, as long as one had the cash. I have no idea if the Gold Center could have legally refused to sell them to the laborers even if they knew what was going down.

 

This Article Is Directly Related

I found these on another thread on CoinTalk. They explain the acquisition of so many sets.

http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=16900

http://coinflation.com/silvercoin_blamegames.html

 

Walter at Prudential originally said that he would have a lottery. Would that be so bad for a business, having the names and contact information for thousands of people who are interested in buying bullion? Even if you are a wholesaler, I'll bet your dealers wouldn't mind the info.

 

Personally, I'm getting tired of this entire drama. I've decided my future purchases of mint products will be done on a very selective basis. We Americans tend to be pretty povincial, but, believe it or not, there is a great big world out there with a number of countries that produce very nice and very creative coins. Why do I want to pay $1,000.00 for an okay quality 2010 5-ounce Hot Springs coin with a mintage of 33,000 when I can purchase a 1999 5-ounce Mexican Libertad (a much more attractive coin I might add) with a mintage of only 400 for about $200.00 less? I guess my logic is just convoluted.

 

I could not agree more .

 

I did hear about the guy hiring day laborers too but lets be honest here. I think a lot of the blame has to go to everyone here on the forums and the rest of the collecting world who pitched such a stink when APMEX started selling the sets at $1400 each and now look at what has happened. Now that they have been all over the news etc. regardless of how many sets are out there places like the Home Shopping Network have their "Ammo" to go out and claim these will be worth millions and the prices are going to stay out of reach for the average collector.
All I wanted was a damn MS69+ graded set which I figured I may have to pay top dollar for and drop like $2K-$3K. But no, now graded sets are selling for $5K-$6K that is just bloody ridiculous.
At this point I just hope I can get my hands on a few more sets while the distributors still have em cause it's the last time you will see these sets for under a grand...

 

I'll reiterate, The Numismatic Community will eventually turn their collective noses up at this issue . Buyers of these " coinedals " are simply ****ing into the wind. In the end, they will only be worth their silver content . Simply because an issue has a limited striking, does not make it a rarity .

 

I really think you are correct, Coinman. Think about Cabbage Patch dolls, Beanie Babies, Pokemon cards, etc. Those are not coins you say? You're right. Now think about the 1999 silver proof set which was issued at $35.00, went to $400.00 and now sells for about $200.00. Think also about the 1996 reverse proof Eagle which was issued as a part of a 3-coin set for $100.00, was selling for a while at around $400.00 in 69-grade and now is selling around $200.00 in the same grade.

I agree in time these 5-ounce mediocrely produced discs will settle out pricewise.

 

I

I really hope you were not being serious here.

 

I spoke with someone at Fidelitrade on Friday about the ATB. They said they are only taking orders by mail, fedex, etc. and not by phone or in person. It sounded like they were just about sold out though. As they receive batches of orders from the various carriers they will process each batch as best they can on a first come basis. They did say that all information must be completed and they are checking for duplicate names, addresses, etc to minimize the possibility that dealers or anyone else gets more than one set. I also asked about their statement about the coins condition. They said that the coins came in tubes just like the silver Eagles and may not be perfect. But they also said that they are putting each coin in a small bubble envelope, putting the 5 small bubble envelopes into Fedex letter envelope, and the Fedex letter envelope into a Fedex bubble pack to protect the coins during shipment (three layers of protection). They said that there was a huge surge of mail and they are trying to work through it as fast as they can. They expected more orders than available coins so some of us will undoubtedly be disappointed. Sounds like they're doing the best they can under the circumstances.

 

The same reason you might pay $1,000 for an ugly 1922 No-D Lincoln cent. They were made from worn dies and are crappy quality coins, but they are highly desired rarities. You could buy 100,000 beautiful shiny new uncirculated cents for the same price, but you wouldn't be interested. The beauty of the coin is not the only thing (or even the major thing) that determines value. One could argue about whether this particular coin is worth $1,000 or not, but the fact that you can get a prettier coin somewhere else for less money shouldn't be the determining factor.

 

I asked coinsantiques.11 how he managed to get so many sets to sell when the mint restricted them to one per customer and prohibited selling them to businesses. He has not yet answered (and the listing says that "no questions or answers have been posted about this item". I will let you know if he replies.

 

I find this to be the most fascinating thread I have read so far. The chaotic handling of this series will definitely be remembered by every collector for some time to come. It's one of those "Where were you when this happened?" scenario's. My question is: What will change when all this finally calms down? Do you think the Mint has learned anything? They treat the collecting side of the coin business as a second thought or unwanted child. Will the bullion distributors even want any part of the rest of this program? This was only the first issue in a 56 coin set. (Perhaps 112 if they opt for the second park mentioned in the bill) Will Congress change more laws? Do they even care too? Will the Mint be forced to handle sales of all limited mintage's? Can this become a Pandora's box for TPG's, Wholesalers, Distributors and Dealer's? (Probably not the latter because they weren't invited to the party) Lots of possibilities here.

 

Dreamer, I completely understand your point about rarities vs. attractive coins. If you look at my post, the attractiveness is a secondary consideration (as evidenced by the parentheses.) My primary point is you are getting the same amount of silver in both coins, but the Libertad has only just over 1% of the mintage (making it more rare) of the
Hot Springs disc.

Because of this, I believe over time the honeymoon with the America the Beautiful discs will end, they will no longer be the latest fad and prices will fall more into line with reality. That's when I hoipe to make my purchase. Hopefully, then, I will even be able to find a set of better-quality discs (if any do, indeed, exist) at a price that is not stratospheric. I'm not sure this will happen, but theoretically is should.