2011 GOLD high $1,500.00, SILVER high $24.00

What expenditures made by NASA were made exclusively here in the USA. Sorry, but pork projects like a bridge to nowhere or a library building or a rocket put money into local economies. The only thing that supports some towns is a military base. Since privatization ignores all the human factor in pursuit of maximum profits, it's not necessairily a good thing. I have read that there is not any gun powder factories remaining in the US. Now, when all the companies and factories move to places where labor is cheap, what happens when some Banana Republic dictator or Imam decides to turn off the tap ? Some things are beyond measuring in dollars and cents. If my neighbors are working and paying taxes, it is a better life for me than if all products are made abroad and nobody has a job. That my friends is the long and short of it. We take care of Americans, then we worry avbout everyone else. At least that's what we should be doing. IMHO

gary

 

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Currently: (app. 4:50 a.m. here
Gold: 1389.00 (Bid)
Silver: 29.37
Platinum: 1723.00
Palladium: 754.00

No witty or informed comments about price of metals. Wouldn't someone else provide that?

 

Not much happening with silver so far this morning. It is only down 0.04 to $29.33.

 

A buddy of mine who used to be an analyst at a hedge fund was telling me he thinks a PM index is a good long term investment because of the different industrial metals used in technology products/increasing demand for technology in China and India. Any ideas on that?

 

Modern technology seems to be getting away from consuming PMs in applications. Almost zero silver is used up for anything today and gold is mostly used in jewelry. As long as the world remains unstable, PMs are going to be in demand. So it looks good for another decade or so anyway, likely 20 years or so. IMHO

gary

 

I think he was talking about other types of metals, not neccessarily gold and silver, that would be included in a PM index.

 

Well I hope copper doesn't get too high so they come up with a replacement. I am banking on the melt ban being lifted. lol Wheelbarrow full of copper cents in the hoard.

 

I doubled my copper holdings today as I suspect it will continue to appreciate this year, or at least the first half or so. My reason was that there are 2 new copper ETFs starting in January, one of which I hear is a physical holder, so as long as people buy the shares, copper will have to be obtained, this beyond the demand for other than copper bullion. Also the rumor that one person holds 70-80% of available copper in the London market.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...r-captures-80pc-of-Londons-copper-market.html

 

I would be careful Desert. Big difference between copper and gold ETF's. Copper may lag severely like oil does because of physical storage issues.

Just a caution.

Speaking of cautions, did anyone post about how we have the highest level of "non-market participants" in the history of commodity markets? Just read this on a business trip a couple of weeks ago in the Journal.

Chris

 

Thanks, I always try not to be surprised Copper shouldn't be too bad for physical storage compared to oil. Gold is 19.3 g/cc, Copper is 8.94 g/cc and oil usually a shade below 1.0 g/cc. Also, even though it is valuable, security costs should be less for a ton of copper than a ton of gold.

As to the second part, there have been several stories on this, that commodity futures have slanted over to speculators, hoarders, and ETFs, rather than the normal markets such as jewelry trade, clothing ( cotton), etc. A market maven was saying that a short ( no pun intended) on Hanes Brands for June would be appropriate due to limitations of cotton for the products ( underwear, etc), seems they were caught with a low inventory. I suspect much was due to few prospects in the Stock market for much of the last 2 years, and should return if and when the economy looks stable enough to drastically affect the price of holding PM and other commodities.
Jim

 

Lead has a 99% recycle turn around.

 

That means gold is worth $860.59/cc, copper is worth $0.084/cc, and oil is worth $0.00057/cc.

A gallon of oil, unprocessed, would be worth about $2.16.

A gallon of copper (3785.4 cc) would be worth about $318.

A gallon of gold would be worth over $3.25 million.

$25K worth of gold will fit in a shot glass.

$25K worth of copper will fit in the trunk of your car.

$25K worth of oil is going to need an underground storage tank.

 

Desert knew where I was going with my last comment, but for everyone else be wary of ETF's trading in commodities of less valuable metals. Physical storage starts to be a larger and larger drag on profits versus market prices the cheaper the commodity is per pound. That is the problem with the oil ETF's right now. It can be sizable, oil is up as a commodity but down as an ETF because of this problem. Copper would have less ETF returns than gold or silver, (as a percent of market returns), but something like aluminum even less. ETF's are a decent investment vehicle, probably more efficient than physical possession, but are in no way perfect. This has always been the major problem in speculating in commodities, these inefficiencies. This is another reason gold is preferred over most other commodities, its high value minimizes these inefficiencies.

Btw, pretty fun comparison JeffB.

Chris

 

It's even worse than you suggest. Most of the ETFs don't even own the underlying commodity. They buy and roll futures contracts and take a loss everytime this happens as long as the market is in contango. So you are losing both the theoretical storage costs, time value of money, and volitility premium. Plus, you don't actually own the commodity that you wanted in the first place.

 

Currently, app 10:00, Bid:
Gold: 1400.00
Silver: 29.72
Platinum: 1749.00
Palladium: 774.00

All up this morning.

 

Silver just BLEW past $30/oz!

 

Nice! I see it is at $30.26.....wow!!!

 

WoW ! People must really expect the world economy to tank ?

 

App 10:55 a.m.
Bid
Gold: 1411.10
Silver: 30.61
Platinum: 1744.00
Palladium: 790.00

Not sure what to think, and am reading a lot of opinions with great interest..

Lucy

 

Lucy, I think, at this rate, you can start a new guess the future PM price thread!