5 Oz America The Beautiful Bullion

Apparently the number is 261 out of 535 who are millionaires - and according to this article the wealthiest is only at $303 Million - no billionaires, sorry.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20023147-503544.html

 

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To misquote F. Scott Fitzgerald, "The very rich....are different than you and me. They have more money".

 

Is this really a legal obligation or a moral obligation? It's hard for me to believe that APMEX would be foolish enough to violate the terms of a legal obligation by overpricing their products. Does anyone know what the contract looks like between the mint and authorized purchasers of bullion?

 

So has there been any updates on availability and/or pricing yet?

I do not see anything on the mints web site yet.

go figure, they've made me so bitter.

My new 2k10 ASE proof has lint and hair INSIDE the capsule...

sad really

 

go to the US Mint website and click on pressroom. There is the latest information in a very recent press release.

It also states that the price must be a reasonable spread between price and melt. NO GOUGING!!!

 

I love your last line ! So true, so true !

 

I see that APMEX lists their current "buy" price for a set of 2010 ATB Bullion coins at $1200 (at the bottom of the page).

My calculator says that's about $240 per coin. Perhaps they list a "buy back" price to show that their asking isn't too high. Dunno...never bought from APMEX.

 

Is there something since December 1? I do not see it. If there is, please post a link.

 

I'm sure a lot of people would like to buy these at $1200!
They legally do not exist yet.

 

it's still the same, looking for news

 

Cite please? I see no such legal obligation, and apparently the US Mint doesn't either,
since they had to urge the distributes to keep prices reasonable rather than mandate
a price:
http://news.coinupdate.com/keep-america-the-beautiful-silver-bullion-coin-prices-reasonable-0561

I see no abuse.

Suppose APMEX had set the price for their 1000 sets at $800-850. My guess is they
would have sold out in 12 minutes, assuming the website didn't crash. Assuming I got
in, I would have bought 50 sets at that price, cherry picked the best 5 coins, and sold
the other 49 sets. My guess is that I could have easily gotten the $1349 a set that
Kitco was asking.

Instead, APMEX chose a price point which allowed them to sell 50 sets an hour,
rather than 5000. This gave time for people to think about the purchase rather
do a smash and grab. Setting a price which clears the market in a reasonable
amount of time is, to my eye, a reasonable price.

So explain it to me. Once Congress and the Mint conspired in incompetence to
create a situation where monopoly profits were inevitable, why is it more evil
for APMEX to get some of those profits rather than the next people in line like
me?

 

No cite...just standard business logic assumption. If you are a member of the list below, business norms would indicate there is contract between the US Goverment and these eleven companies to ensure no one abuses the liquidity and general dynamics of the free market for precious medal commodities. If APMEX buys $50,000,000 worth of silver eagles, they are expected to sell them into the market at a reasonable markup. I expect the contract would have clauses that would ensure APMEX is not be able to sit on them, freeze the liquidity and create a crisis of supply in order to create above normal profits. Other governments would be all over the US if they allowed their distributors to mess with global commodity pricing in this manner. Thus, since the mint was issuing 33,000 each of ATB 5 oz bullion...or 825,000 ounces of silver into the silver commodities market, they would have their distributors not disrupt the markets by sitting on, over inflating, or gouging with extremely high pricing. Any clauses in the bullion distributor agreement would apply to this bullion, just as any other bullion, and it is bullion as the mint had stated there would be numismatic versions available in the short term.

[FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]AUTHORIZED PURCHASERS
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]UNITED STATES
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]A-Mark Precious Metals (Los Angeles)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (310) 319-0371
Contact: Mr. Rand LeShay
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]American Precious Metals Exchange, Inc. (Oklahoma)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (405) 595-2100
Contact: Mr. Scott Thomas
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver only [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Coins ‘N Things Inc. (Massachusetts)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (508) 697-9600
Contact: Mr. Mark Oliari or
Mr. Paul Thompson
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Dillon Gage Incorporated of Dallas (Texas)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone (972) 386-2901
Contact: Mr. Terry Hanlon
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver only [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]MTB (New York)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone (212) 981-4510
Contact: Mr. Michael Kramer
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Prudential Securities Inc. (New York)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (212) 778-6667
Contact: Mr. Walter Pehowich
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Scotia Mocatta (New York)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (212) 225-6200
Contact: Mr. Steve Abbriano or
Victoria Bernard
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver, Gold, Platinum [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]The Gold Center (Illinois)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (217) 793-8000
Contact: Mr. Jim Hausman
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver only [/FONT]

EUROPE
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Commerzbank International
(Luxembourg)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (352) 477911-2324
Contact: Mr. Michael Kempinski
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri](New York Office)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Mr. Sandy Gellis
Mr. Randy Weinerman
(212) 336-1000
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver and Gold [/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Deutsche Bank A.G. (Germany)
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: Frankfurt: (49) (69) 910-31000
Contact: Mr. Joerg Stath
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Silver and Gold [/FONT]

FAR EAST
[FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Tanaka Kinkinzoku Kogyo K.K.
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Telephone: (813) 3668-0111
Contact: Mr. O. Ikeda
[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Calibri]Gold and Platinum [/FONT]


Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/showthread.php?t=134103&page=3#ixzz17YdTfUwc​

 

Yes, there is a legal obligation of Apmex to the US Mint for pricing and that's what the fight is about. The best explanation of it I've seen so far is Kaece's post #266 on the forum linked below.

http://goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?5807-America-the-Beautiful-5-oz-Silver-Bullion-Coins/page9

 

That response merely quotes the same letter I linked to, which was a request and not a legal obligation. Again I ask, under what law is there such an obligation?

 

It references an Authorized Purchaser Agreement, which is a contract between the U.S. Mint and Apmex. That is the source of the legal obligation. It's a contractual obligation, not a statutory one.

 

The root word of assumption is assume. I think we all know how that word parses out.

Under conditions where business norms apply, there is no need for any assumptions at all. APMEX ain't the Hunt Brothers and can't corner the market on silver. Competition from other bullion products and other distributors ensures that the market clearing price for SAE's is only slightly higher than other forms of bullion. If they set their price too high, people simply go elsewhere.

So APMEX would do the same thing with both the SAE's and hockey pucks, which is to make their best guess at a market clearing price, watch sales, and adjust the price accordingly. Again, I see no abuse. In fact, your demand for price controls is an attempt to interfere with "general dynamics of the free market."

You continue to ignore the elephant in the room. No matter what the Government calls them, the smaller than anticipated mintage figure ensures that these hockey pucks won't trade as bullion unless the law changes. Ever. APMEX's bid/ask spread is a whole $30 a coin. I don't consider that unreasonable.

Unlike you, though, I do have a cite of interest. 31 USC 5112(u)(3)(A) states outright that the hockey pucks are numismatic items. Twice, in fact.

 

It's going to take more than one lawyer to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. It's time for new Leadership at this Mint.

 

Obviously, you missed the part of the contract that states "These premiums are to be competitive with those charged for other bullion coins." Apmex didn't do this. It's now trying to backtrack and come up with something. In the WSJ yesterday, they cited Proof Pandas with a 10,000 mintage as a comparable -- that dog doesn't hunt. And the Mint knows it.

 

I've seen letters which warn of breach of contract. Heck, I've written such letters. They cite which provisions of the contract they allege are in breach, with page references, paragraph references, and quoting language. This one doesn't even come close.

Produce a copy of the actual agreement and we'll talk.

Here's a quick rule on construction of legislation or contracts. Any legal document which relies on a definition of the word "reasonable" isn't reasonable. OTOH, a market clearing price between willing sellers and a willing buyers, is, legally, a reasonable price. No one is being coerced here except against the Mint by Congress. There's no emergency except for the Mint's sales deadline.

Instead, given the limited supply there's legitmate demand for the pieces at prices higher than bullion. The monopoly profits are there for the taking. If you stop one group from taking them, it just means another will.

If you think the asking price is too high, once the coins reach the open market the price will drop due to supply and demand and you can buy then and laugh at all the people who paid too much. Or you can wait for sales of the numismatic version and take your chances with the Mint's prices and website.

 

No need to apologise as you are not correct. You should do some research rather than just quote news links. Several of the members of congress have family ties to money that go into the billions of dollars.