Does anyone have any idea why slabbed versions of this coin sell for so much? It's still being sold by the mint. Here is an example from an auction last week. From what I have seen, it's rivalling the Jackson coin in pricing and scarcity. Elizabeth Monroe is another that tends to run pretty high. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360236427570&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
probably because people want to put them in their registry sets and they'd rather just pay for one already slabbed than taking the risk to send it in for grading themselves.
That's certainly a factor. My First Spouse experiences have been that, if you don't buy your coins when they first come out, there's a good chance you'll get a damaged coin (Uncs especially) when you order. The reason is that dealers order large number of these coins when they first come out and return the ones that aren't perfect. The Mint simply returns these coins to stock and they get shipped out in the next order. If you don't get your order in the first week the coins come out, you might as well pay an extra $100 to get an NGC or PCGS graded MS70 on eBay...that's what I do. I'm through buying other people's rejects from the Mint.
^I had not considered that the Mint allows this sort of thing to go on. It's a bit disappointing they are reselling coins that have already been handled by one of their customers.
I returned an Anna Harrison Unc coin and got the EXACT SAME ONE back as my replacement. The damage was unmistakable. jaceravone told me (Joe, please correct me if I misquote you) that a Mint employee told him that the best way to return a First Spouse coin is to purchase the replacement first and then return the damaged one. That way you have a better chance of an acceptable replacement. That suggests to me that some Mint employees resent returned coins and purposefully pick out bad coins as replacements. I've becoming increasingly disillusioned by the Management of the US Mint. Changes are way overdue.
I'm a little confused. There seems to be a reference to US Mint employees doing this or doing that, shipping this or that and yours back to you, etc. To the best of my knowledge, and I admit I don't know all that much, the logistics of selling the mint products, collecting payment, etc. is handled by a contractor to the mint and not the mint itself. I won't mention that subcontractors corporate name, but if you have ordered anything in the last year, look at the return address label and do an internet search for them. The complaints - in my opinion - should be against the contractor and filed with or reported to the government (mint). Regarding the first spouse gold series, with such low mintage numbers - especially lately - I have to wonder how many they strike, how many they plan in advance to strike, and what the logistics are for returns. I would have to believe that someone takes a look at the returns before returning any of them to stock, and there is some pass/fail criteria that provides for melt and/or make more. In the case of the Harrison that was mentioned, I would imagine that it is possible that the problem with one coin was a problem with more than the one coin, and buying a second one before returning the first would prove whether or not it is the case. Now I had an interesting thought regarding low mintage numbers... If dealers do buy up a lot of first spouse gold and return them, I would think that there would be limits as to how much they can do. They (the US Mint web site) do have a statement saying that they can reject orders. If dealers are buying and returning too many, they must be stating a legitimate reason, or the dealers would be limited from ordering in the future. This is just my thought - it probably isn't reality. Since I'm on a long rant - I did perform an interesting calculation using the UNC Anna Harrison as an example. My question was: How many dollars worth of UNC Harrison's were sold? If the final number sold was 3,537 coins and lets say they did go for $766 each, the total number of dollars worth would be 3,537 x $766 = $2,709,342. The Tylers' UNCs are probably low mintage as well. Perpetuating this a bit further, if the limits for first spouse mintage is 15,000 per coin issue, and if they are $800 a coin, it would only take $12 million to buy up the complete number of allowable production and corner the market. For some of the multi-millionaires and billionaires out there, $12 million is pocket change. Thoughts? Oh, and if someone could please tell me why it takes so long for a final update on sales of the Tylers' first spouse, I'd appreciate it. The only thing I can think of is that they need to give the marketplace a 7 day period for returns to come back in order to come up with the sales numbers...(?)
I agree, I don't know who controls the stock of coins; the Mint or the Fulfillment Center. I would think it was the Mint; if there was a return, I would hope someone at the Mint is performing some sort of QA on the coins. Not only was the Anna Harrison coin I received as a replacement to my return the EXACT SAME COIN, the COA was jammed into the lid and the coin (outside of it's plastic capsule) and plastic capsule were put back into the display box LOOSE. I took that to mean that some arrognant SOB (at the Mint or the Fulfillment Center) was sending me a "not so subtle" message. If only that were true. I personally know a number of First Spouse collectors that have received damaged coins only to return them and get damaged coins as replacements. This seems to happen most often with the Unc coins; the proofs are still pretty good. About every ten (10) weeks or so, the Mint updates their First Spouse sales figures with (what I assume to be) the returns. You always see a large "negative" sales number with the Uncs...that's not just me returning the coins! Even the Mint folks on the phone say the best way is to order a new coin first, then (after you receive the replacement) return the one you don't want. The "dealer" issue was just speculation on my part. I don't know of any dealers that actually do that...but I wouldn't put it past them. I'm not sure how/if the Mint would deal with that. All I see posted is that there is "no limit" on First Spouse orders and there is a seven (7) day return policy. There are no preorders for these coins; orders are taken on a "First Come; First Serve" basis beginning at 12 noon on the first day of sales. Without limits, I suppose a single buyer could come close to cornering the market on a particular issue...but I suspect folks with that kind of disposable cash have bigger fish to fry that cornering the market on a single issue of the First Spouse series. Interesting question...the Tyler mintages (sales) figures didn't change over the last week they were on sale. It's been a couple more weeks and I still don't see an update. As I recall, there was a similar controversy over the final mintage figure for the 2008 fractional AGE coins; a year later some of the coins had their final mintages cut almost in half. I was reading a blog on the First Spouse series and there was one post where a person stated (and I don't know their credentials for making a statement like this), but they were convinced that many of the reported First Spouse sales figures will be adjusted downward in coming years. Bottomline: US Mint mintage figures are a mystery.
Yes, they are waiting for my return. Lately many of my spouses have been loose in the box but this one had come out of the capsule itself and had scratches on the R. I was hoping for one more shot at a 70...
I got a grey sheet to check prices and still no BID ASK spreads for 2009 coins! I see many 2007 and 2008 for sale but not many 2009 and the few Julia are are over $1,000 everywhere, One dealer looked up the price for a proof 70 and only offered $850.
Hope this isn't too silly of a question, but the new Buchanan Liberty Proof FS are going for $779. I noticed that the Jefferson Liberty Proof FS (mintage 20k) is going for $680-$700. I was wondering why the older proofs are selling at 10% less than coins that are still being sold by the Mint? I realize that the current FS coins will be limited to 15,000 for the combined production of both the proof and unc. So is the 20,000 mintage coins worth that much less than coins with an estimated 8,000 mintage? Both seem like low mintage to me. Thanks
Dave In 2007 they were bought to flip and sold out quick. market for FS tanked many of the FS were returned to US MINT. Gold is high and Mint has premium on FS. the 2007 are selling at melt. Sure AIN'T 20,000 COLLECTORS.
Another FS collector, whom I quoted to you in another thread on FS coins, reported something interesting that I thought you be surprised to hear about the Mint. If you tried to place an order you may find the similar situation. more here
I think part of the reason for the lower price is that people are willing to part with them for less because they were bought in '07 for $425; selling for $700 is an 88% profit. @ $779 you'd have to sell for $1,464 to make 88%.
I was going to order one, but the price is $804 proof and $791 Unc. This is the higher price? I tought updates happened at 12:00 Thursday.
The First Spouse will gradually, at a snail's pace, become one of the most valuable sets ever. It is exquisite, and undervalued for any coin less than ?1,500 dollars right now. Expect some 3,000 strike pieces to be $3,000 dollars later. And then some.
