I saw the Liberty Dollars advertised in a NC newspaper a while back. Are any available, are they real silver & gold, and why was the maker jailed? Sorry if this is in another post. Kind of hard to specifically search for "Liberty" and "Dollar" in a US coin forum! Thanks for any info!
Because you can't print up your own money and claim it to be legal american currency. You can have trade script or make yourself some silver coins and put whatever you want on there but you can't claim they are US currency and it doesn't help to take shots at the federal reserve in the process.
I have seen a few legit ones from 2003-2008 in half and full ounce. Not a bad buy if you can get them close to spot. They may even sold in 1/4 ounce The seller you have pointed out may have these, or just reproductions, maybe just plated. But I have no proof of this. Look on ebay, just to get on idea. Just my head up CLAW
Wikipedia is better than nothing, though that article is not their finest hour. The background is colorful(*), and the legal arguments are interesting to watch. The NORFED folks later insisted on calling their product "barter tokens" to avoid charges of passing them as currency, but the government had already sunk its teeth into them. The statute under which they're charged prohibits passing as money anything other than US coinage, even if it's not a counterfeit of a US coin. The paperwork the government filed against them made a big deal of the fact that they were selling rounds for N dollars with an N dollar face value that contained less than N dollars worth of silver. Doing that kind of thing is a privilege that governments guard jealously. (*) Look up the founder's other activities. I'd tell you, but you'll get a kick out of finding them on your own.
There are constitutional questions here that have not been adjudicated before and it's my opinion the government is obfuscating it to avoid having the current legal tender laws judged against the Constitution. Historically, alternative currency used to exist all over the United States. Banks, before the Federal Reserve, would issue their own money, companies would pay people with their money, and even some states issued their own currencly. There is nothing in the US Constitution that prevents it. The issue at hand is whether the Federal Reserve and it's granted monopoly over "legal tender" not currency, is legitimate. To answer the OP's question, I think you can occasionally find these coins on Ebay and local dealers. They were struck from silver.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information. Too user friendly. Visitors can change the information found there?
Oh, no question, the best part of Wikipedia is the citations, and the articles that have committed editors who delete unsourced material.
The Liberty Dollars are only available on the secondary market, no longer available by the Liberty Dollar site due to the raids. Bernard was jailed due to what has already been said, the barter tokens. that he is behind the designing and minting of is against United States law. They aren't coins/currency, they don't fit the definition of a coin, and to call them a coin would make them illegal. I own many of these dollars. The only reason anybody should buy them now is for numismatic value, if you want to buy a 1/4 oz for twenty dollars, it better be because you think you can make money on them. In other words, I'd recommend buying silver rounds. You can't buy the Liberty Dollars as bullion anymore, and unless you can, I really wouldn't recommend buying them. The prices are so high, because the Liberty Dollar collectors, such as myself, don't know what will happen, and the dollars that have already been minted, could be the only ones that will ever be minted again. And to answer your question, they are real silver, gold, platinum, and copper dollars that they make. None of them are clad, or fake. The whole purpose of the Liberty Dollar is to have a bartering agreement using real money, not trillions in dollars of debt.
Re: "jailed": Out on bond at the moment, according to the blogosphere. Indicted last year, and I haven't seen any news about a trial date. In detail, he's accused of violating 18 U.S.C. § 485, 18 U.S.C. § 486, and 18 U.S.C. § 371; one count of mail fraud in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; one count of selling, and possessing with intent to defraud, coins of resemblance and similitude of United States coins in denominations of five cents and higher, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; and one count of uttering, passing, and attempting to utter and pass, silver coins in resemblance of genuine U.S. coins in denominations of five dollars or greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2.
I've put in bold the text I will respond to in this thread. In my opinion the reason for the existance of this self-denominated bullion was to make a profit for the seller. These were never sold at cost and always carried a premium. Perhaps I am a bit cynical, but I do not believe for an instant that the reason behind the production of these peices was altruism.
I can agree with you to some extent, but I'm one of the ones that honestly thinks Bernard made these dollars for the purpose of having that bartering agreement, and going back to a currency that uses real money. But hey, you gotta make money somehow.
How to find Liberty Dollars Ebay has over 400 listings for Liberty Dollars. Search "NORFED" to find them, since the words Liberty and Dollar will result in mostly US currency coin. They are usually silver, but there are copper, gold and platinum Liberty Dollars also. They do sell for a large premium over pure bullion because they have collectible value as well as the intrinsic metal value. If you find one near spot, you should buy it before I find out about it. :smile
Check out Schiff and GATA for more info My hope is that the next decent US President will fully "Pardon" the creator of the Liberity Dollar. The word "dollar" is in the dictionary. No one agency/government should have a monopoly on it. IMHO, the creator of this bullion/silver round was wrongly accused, and convicted. Check out Peter Schiff on YouTube for a rationale response to the topic. I believe Schiff hit the nail on the real conterfeit head. www.gata.org Also, GATA is another good source on this topic.
I have seen a few at coin shows over the past few years. They always sell at a significant premium. Interesting how the creators (and also people selling them now in the secondary market) have no trouble taking US dollars as payment for them. TC
The coins are indeed getting tougher to find. I have not seen a silver one at coin show in a while. I don't believe for one second the goal of the federal government in shutting down the Liberty dollar was for the protection of the people. If they were actually interested in that, they would have gone after the too big to fail banks. It's all about control, and keeping alternatives to the Federal Reserve from developing is part and parcel to that.
