Silver Bullion Art Bars and Rounds?

So my grandfather has taken insterest in collecting art bars and rounds. He currently orders rounds though the mail but he is paying super high premiums and doenst understand. He sees it as adding to his collection but doesnt see that he can get more for his money. Where is the best place to order art rounds and bars without paying super high premiums?

 

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If there is a local coin shop around in your area, then I would check out that coin shop. Generally speaking, buying silver art bars from a local coin shop or at a local coin show is cheaper as opposed to buying online (ebay, APMEX, etc.). Most local coin dealers will treat silver art bars as .999 generic silver and will price them accordingly. There will be some local coin dealers that will charge a higher premium on them than on .999 generic silver and if that is the case, then I would avoid those local dealers that do that.

I am a silver art bar collector and most of my silver art bar purchases were from local coin dealers and at coin shows that were in my area.

 

Do you live near your grandfather? If so, may I suggest that you ask him to go with you to a coin shop one day and ask that he bring some of his art bars along with him. Ask the dealer what he would be willing to pay for the bars. Hopefully, it will be a wake-up call for your grandfather.

Chris

 

Are you talking about 4-5 rounds a month or a day?

 

I wouldn't trust that the average coin dealer would be up on the value of some silver art bars. Many of them sell for premiums over melt on Ebay because they have a following by collectors.

 

You're missing the entire point! He stated that his grandfather is paying premiums that are way too high, and, hopefully, by having a local dealer make a low offer for them, his grandfather will realize his mistake.

Chris

 

Perhaps the grandfather is paying premiums on specimens that command premiums. Are these just modern/common or rare bars/rounds?

 

You have to shop around. But, in general, Apmex.com is one of the cheapest places around.

 

I buy an occasional round but I have set up a couple of guidelines for myself. They must be from a reputable mint company, one that I've heard of and one that's been around for awhile. The other thing I look for is a date. Although some collectors won't even buy art bars b/c they figure that anyone can stamp a bar or a round, I will buy but I am very careful. I will not buy a bar or I should say that I haven't so far and I don't plan on it. Alot of those bars are sterling so you gotta be careful.

 

You're missing the entire point! Maybe his grandfather isn't paying a premium at all compared to the true value of the bars. Having a dealer offer a misleading amount for them helps nothing. The right thing to do is find out what each piece is really worth.

 

When you sell silver art bars to a dealer, you will get only the metal value (minus a discount) regardless of "rarity" values. The local coin dealer is not going to care if what is on the art bar or its "rarity" value. The only thing that the dealer is going to care about is the silver content. If a person wanted to sell silver art bars, then ebay is the best option because collectors are willing to pay a much larger premium over spot silver.

With that said, most local dealers, will put their silver art bars in the same bucket as their generic .999 silver rounds and they will price their silver art bars at the same premium as their .999 generic silver rounds. If you can buy from a local dealer, then that is the best option because you can save on premiums as opposed to buying on ebay or anywhere else online.

Why pay $5-$6 over spot for a "common" 1-oz silver art bar when a person can get it ,for example, for $1.50 (or better) over spot? Buy locally (if you can at a decent premium).

This is how I buy silver art bars and that was been a very good method for me to save on premiums.

However, there are certain silver art bars that are hard to find locally because of relative scarcity as compared to other types of silver and sometimes if a local dealer recognizes that, then they will price them accordingly but if you are familiar with certain silver art bars, then you can recognize if it is a good deal or not ONLY IF you know what you are buying. I have said in my previous post on this thread to avoid local dealers who price their silver art bars higher than their .999 generic silver and that is a good idea ONLY IF you do not know what you are buying.

I will use myself as an example of what I am talking about.........

I like to collect '70's silver art bars in general and I especially like to collect the Coca-Cola silver art bars. Earlier this year I was able to buy several Coca-Coca silver art bars from a local dealer for $25.00 each when spot was in $16's range. On an absolute basis, that is a high premium over spot silver, however, on a relative basis, that is a very good deal because on ebay, those same Coca-Cola silver art bars that I bought from the local dealer for $25.00, cost anywhere between $35 to $100 on ebay. I saved between $10 to $75 on "collector" premiums. I also wanted to say that it took patience to wait for some Coke bars to show up locally at a good price. Since I started collecting silver art bars in August 2008, the highest price that I paid for a Coke bar was $31.00 and the lowest price that I paid for a Coke bar was $17 (spot silver was in the $13 range at that time).

My main point here is that doing research on particular silver art bars that you are interested in collecting will go a long way in avoiding overpaying on certain silver art bars. My research involves looking at ebay prices for certain art bars and reading my guidebooks to become familiar with certain silver art bars.

I have also bought some art bars on ebay in the past but not much because good deals on silver art bars are very hard to come by on ebay.

DYODD = Due Your Own Due Diligence.

 

That is a good idea to find out what a silver art bar is worth in a true marketplace. IMO ebay is the true marketplace to find out what a particular silver art bar is worth.

I would also add that looking at and tracking a regular ebay auction is the best way to look at the true worth of a silver art bar because people are bidding on it.

A Buy-It-Now (BIN) ebay auction is not a true measure of the worth of a silver art bar because the BIN price is generally too high to start with and a silver art bar will not move at a high BIN price.

 

I guess you know cheerio's grandfather better than he does, and we should ignore the fact that cheerio said that his grandfather is paying super high premiums and doesn't understand.

A dealer wouldn't be offering him a misleading amount. He would be offering him a realistic amount that most any dealer would pay. You can talk about pie-in-the-sky-prices on eBay all you want, cloudsweeper, but this is an elderly gentleman who probably doesn't know squat about the internet.

Chris

 

I wouldn't automatically assume cheerio knows more about the collectibility of silver art bars than his grandfather or the dealer. The right thing to do is to stop assuming and find out what the bars are actually worth to an informed buyer. And as 1970SilverArt has frequently pointed out, local dealers do not typically understand this market and are not informed buyers. SilverArt has many fine posts on this topic, and may be the leading expert in this field on CoinTalk. It would pay to read them before assuming the grandfather is overpaying.

 

I do not consider myself to be a silver art bar expert because I am still learning about silver art bars. I am not perfect and I have made mistakes in over paying for silver art bars when I started out collecting them. I just wanted to share my experiences as a silver art bar collector. I also want to say that I have never sold anything on ebay but I lurk on ebay on a regular basis to study certain auction prices on silver art bars. There are other silver art bar collectors that have more knowledge than me and I try my very best to learn from them. I also have a couple of silver art bar price guides that help me study more about certain silver art bars.

Most of my experience is just going out to local coin dealers and to local coin shows and actually buying silver art bars and getting a real world idea of what certain dealers are pricing their art bars. Most of best my silver art bar deals have occurred at local coin shows.

I love this hobby and it is fun to collect silver art bars that I really like.

 

No disrespect intended toward 1970 Silver Art, but his knowledge in this area does not make him an expert on the elderly. Why do you think that more and more states have passed legislation to protect the elderly? If anything, I would rather err on the side of caution rather than assume that he is in full control of all of his faculties.

What you are doing is merely defending the concept of investing in silver art bars without any concern for his welfare. I'm sure glad that I'm not your grandfather.

Chris

 

I understand and respect that, but cheerio's grandfather is not going to dealers and shows. He is buying them through the mail. Anyone who has had any experience with "mail order programs" for collectibles knows that most are drastically overpriced, and in all likelihood, cheerio's grandfather is being taken to the cleaners. I live in South Florida where the elderly population is huge, and I am involved with the elderly on a regular basis. Hardly a day goes by where you don't read of stories just like this.

Chris

 

I agree 100% with you that "mail order programs" for collectibles are very overpriced. There is no doubt about that.

The only reason that I mentioned local coin shops and coin shows because IMO those are the best places to buy silver art bars without paying a "super high premium" unless he was really asking what was the best "online" or best "mail order program" to "order" silver art bars and rounds.

Maybe I am over thinking this.

 

No, I don't think you are overthinking it. It surely is posssible that the grandfather is unable to get around easily on his own, and perhaps he is using the mail order routine because of that. It's also why I suggested that cheerio offer to take his grandfather to a shop so he could see and learn for himself.

Chris

 

Premium Silver "Art Bars"

Thank you for the words of wisdom/guidance. I virtually can't remember selling a true Silver "art bar" (low mintage - unique design), in auction, at less than spot bullion value. I've sold numerous relatively high mintage "mint products", at less than spot bullion value. The "value" of a commercial item is generally dictated in the long term by market consumer interest, rather than the short term marketing efforts of large organizations similar to the U.S. Mint.