Saving for the collapse.

If a worldwide economic collapse happened today, what good would our silver and gold hoards be in the years immediately following? In the worst scenario, paper money is worthless. Stores are looted. There is complete anarchy in the street. There is no law enforcement to speak of. It would take years for gold and silver standards to become the normal way to spend. How much gold and silver do we need to survive? You might get a loaf of bread for a silver dime from one place, then spend twenty silver quarters from another guy. Who's to say anybody would even want it? If you had an extra can of corn to trade to survive, would you rather have a silver dollar or a roll of toilet paper?

This part of collecting bullion has always puzzled me. If you had to survive just on the amount of precious metal you have, even if you had a warehouse full of it, I think you would have a hard time surviving. You would hope that you had a needed skill when the time comes. A dentist would be nice. That's something you could trade for anything, and nobody can sneak up and take from you in the middle of the night.

 

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I think if there ever was a true financial collapse there would be total chaos and collecting coins/ silver or gold would be left to the big money holders as the rest of us would be searching for our next meal. I wonder if any members are from Zimbabwe?

 

This has always bothered me to but I think it's a great deal human nature to gab and justify what you have, store, save, and how well you may be prepared. We all do it in one way or another. It's all an illusion until you know what your in for.
Just as you say it's crazy to think that gold or silver will be your advantage or your hedge. Just ask those folks a on the S.S. Cetral America as they were scattering their gold across the deck of the ship. Three things became very important real quick, air, something to float on or with and knowing somewhat how to swim. Gold was not only no good it was useless and could kill you quicker.
Now people may come back and say this or that or the other thing but how do you know what's going to be valued, needed or worth a tinkers damn until that particular situation unfolds?

Things that are always in demand such as a trade, or brains may be needed but we don't even know that will be vauled. Tools and lumber, food, water, shelter will be valued it always is. Those also may say "well I'll have the PM gold or silver to buy those things but if tools, food, water shelter are important why would gold get them then?

People also think they are smarter than they really are (I know I do) and that will carry the day. That won't carry a bucket of water any faster than clown the down the road now will it?

I'm always amazed on CoinTalk or at any shop or show when gold sailing people talk it to death, when it's falling few folks says a thing. There is a bunch of folks in gold right now over $950 an ounze and the fact is it was just 7 short years ago it was under $300, do what makes you feel best.

I've said it before, the only thing that will give you any adavantage is the williness to commit, some effort and luck, and luck is the most important of the three! Oh how we hate to think of such a things as being the edge to survive but that's all it is. We hate it because it's not something we think will be important and you can't wrap your arms around - it's the only thing we've ever had in the first place!

 

In the scenario you describe, bullits will be the new currency...and a bullit is one thing that can take away your dental training (any time of day).

 

I thought about that when I wrote that. I would be happy to pull your bad tooth out if you had a gun to my head. But I would also be trying to sell myself as an asset to the community, so maybe they might keep me around.

 

Maybe you saw the movie, The Book of Eli? I won't give away the secret ending but the idea of trading a can corn for other goods pretty much sounds like the world after the world wide collapse in that story. I remember the scene where Eli trades a KFC finger wipe packet for something he needed and the guy on the other end of the deal looked like he was handing him gold. The point is what is valuable or not valuable after a collapse all depends on how far we all fall. What good is a bag of gold if you are all fighting over the last piece of bread?

 

Nobody can really prepare for financial collapse. The best you can do is to stay friendly with your neighbors and active in your community. It's going to take a lot of teamwork and cooperation among people, church groups and civic organizations to recover from an emergency. The idea that the way to survive is for an individual or family to store food, gold and ammo up in the mountains and shoot it out with anybody who approaches [or offer to extract a tooth for a loaf of bread] is pretty fringe in my opinion. The world hasn't worked that way for the past 10,000 years or so, and most likely won't in our lifetimes either.

 

I'm more worried about being hit with a meteorite. Or being run over by a stampeding herd of turtles.

 

As far as an economic type of disaster or collapse it would be
Winner take all!!!

 

I don't think a financial collapse necessarily means complete anarchy and collapse of society. It would mean that people's plans for the immediate future are trashed and most likely would mean a change in civil rights, etc. Most likely there would be some sort of marshal law established at the local or state level then recovery takes place from there.

In a very short while, they would issue some sort of new currency. There may or may not be a conversion from the old currency but if so, you can bet it will be pennies on the dollar. (or maybe even fractions of pennies) However eventually this money would be tradeable in gold and silver, as money has always been, and those holding it will have their wealth preserved.

If you want a very recent example of this, look at North Korea. The government a few months ago, issued the "new" Won and people had a week or so to convert their "old" Won at the rate of 100 old to 1 new. This sounds innocent enough except that Kim Il Sung's government put a limit of the total amount that each party could exchange. Initially this was limited to 100,000 Won. It was later raised, but it had the effect of wiping out the accumulated wealth of a lot of people. The reason for this was stamp out the black market. It was those holding their money in other currencies or gold/silver that were protected.

There have been plenty of currency collapses in in the last 100 years and rarely has it been accompanied by complete civil breakdown. It has led to all sorts of other bad things such as the rise of dictatorships, breakout of war, etc. However in every case, it's the people with gold and silver that avoided a lot of the financial calamity. And I mean they had physical possession of it.

I've often heard the excuse from people who dismiss the holding of gold because they ask "what's the point?". They make the argument that if it is ever needed then we have Armageddon, but it never works that way. The modern reason for holding gold and silver is to insulate yourself from the decisions of idiot politicians and greedy CEOs of finance institutions.

 

I guess you've never been to West Virginia (Sorry, Joe hya

 

You have to ask the question......what would cause such a collapse in the first place. Something like this... http://www.revlu.com/ystone.html Or something like this.... http://www.igsb.uiowa.edu/browse/manson/manson.htm Or something like this... http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...nova-University/Article/201001115515600?f=rss But let's face it.....who wants to survive any of that? We are already facing a mega economic problem today.....it's global....Yet I don't see bullets as a #1 commodity, yet.

 

The dentist idea would be pretty useless there also :kewl:

 

dang, you just iterated exactly what I wanted to say, especially you correctly used the word "financial" instead of "economic" in describing the situation.

 

I agree with the safety in numbers idea. In a worst case scenario, loners (regardless of how much gold/silver they have accumulated) will likely not fare well in isolation. IMO, groups of civil and resilient people will have the best chance for survival. TC

 

Worst case scenario as you have decribed above you won't need any PM's you'll need a gun! of course if you were a dentist you could steal the gold and silver from your patents teeth! Then allow them to take something from the treasure chest if you were good in the chair! Don't tell my wife, but I always take something from "The Treasure Chest" when in her office! LOL I do ....they have some good stuff!:thumb:

 

Hey Hey Easy! :kewl: We like our guns just as much as we like our gold here in WV.....or was that we like our beer the same way we like our women....or something like that.

 

Things can get really bad, like 1945 Europe bad, and some form of currency will still be in use. Right after the war, the Volkswagen factory kept running. They took payment, and paid their suppliers in, cartons of cigarettes.

In recent hyperinflations (Zimbabwe, ex-Yugoslavia) the fallback position has been paper money from neighboring countries. It's familiar and convertible into valuables as long as you can cross the border.

 

I guess I better start saving my Canadian pennies!

 

I listed a few examples of Saint-Gaudens from a 1972 price guide compared to 2009 prices:

1907 MCMVII wire rim: $250 Fine, $400 Ex Fine
1907 MCMVII wire rim: $9,500 VF20, $25,000 MS63

1921: $650 Fine, $1,250 Ex Fine
1921: $20,000 VF20, $235,000 MS63

1907: $42.50 Fine, $50.00 Ex Fine
1907: $975 VF20, $1,500 MS63

It is truly amazing how much the price of gold has risen.

-LTB