eBay auction rules re: "side deals"

Recently a lengthy thread appeared on this forum ("An Ebay Rip??" ) about a forum member (Buyer) bragging he had successfully solicited an eBay Seller to sell him a coin in a direct transaction outside of the eBay auction.

http://www.cointalk.com/t69486

In several postings I made it quite clear to the Buyer this was not only against eBay rules but also laws governing auctions conducted via interstate commerce.

The Buyer insisted I was wrong.

eBay now has this warning I noticed today when messaging a Seller (re: shipping costs) about his pending auction:

"Always remember to complete your transactions on eBay - it's the safer way to trade.

Is this message an offer to buy your item directly through email without winning the item on eBay? If so, please help make the eBay marketplace safer by reporting it to us. These "outside-of-eBay" transactions may be unsafe and are against eBay policy."

 

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I have sold outside Ebay, It IS against policy.. I still use PayPal for the Buyers safety..
When I have a BIN or Best Offer.. If I get an offer.. I have said as long as I can Just send the Bill through PayPal.. OUTSIDE ebay.. EBAY does not get the fee's and that is why they don't like it.. sure there are other reasons.. but I am sure that is near the top..
I Also post in my Auctions "RESERVE THE RIGHT TO END AUCTION EARLY FOR LOCAL SALE",
I wonder If that is bad In Ebay's Eye's?.. I only do that since I saw other Auctions doing it.. Anyone know? I have never had a Complaint and am at over 600 sales with 100% Feedback...
Anyone know the LAW on such things?

 

As long as you have a pending eBay auction, you cannot sell your item to someone who contacts you in response to your Ebay auction.

eBay's not in the business of letting people use their auction system to advertise their items for sale for free. You're cheating eBay out of their final auction fees.

 

The Moose is right. After having completed your eBay dealings through eBay and giving them their due, should you choose to start a business relationship with a seller outside of eBay, and buy mdse from them that has not been seen on eBay, that is a different story. I have made some nice deals with sellers that are disposing of collections by simply talking to them over the telephone about whatever else they may have. There's nothing that eBay can do about that, and it's not against the rules.

Some may think that's risky, but after you've completed a couple transactions with a seller, and have talked to them on the phone....you can get a feel for what kind of person they are. Still a risk, but no more so than a lot of other things that we do every day.

Nightowl

 

Yes, it is absolutely against eBay policy and rules, however, there are no "laws governing auctions conducted via interstate commerce" that are violated. My guess is that there are no specific "laws governing auctions conducted via interstate commerce". What is violated is the eBay policy that every eBay member agreed to abide by when he/she joined eBay. Try reading it http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html

 

eBay was cheated out of final auction fees..

...on an eBay auction that closed at over $3,000 according to the OP of "An Ebay Rip??"

http://www.cointalk.com/t69486

I'm not trying to re-ignite a closed thread.

I'n just trying to alert forum members who may be confused as to what eBay is now posting in order to clarify their position on this matter.

 

As for the first part of this, you are lucky you have not been kicked off eBay.

As for "RESERVE THE RIGHT TO END AUCTION EARLY FOR LOCAL SALE", it can be done legally, but not the way you are doing it. If you have a store and a customer walks in and buys a coin you are trying to sell on eBay, that is legal. However, if the customer in any way has seen what you are selling in eBay, you have violated eBay's rules. You can be kicked off eBay, sued and you will loose. PERIOD.

 

Nightowl's almost sorta right...

The savvy thing to do is let the auction run its course and THEN negotiate your deal. You obviously run the risk of not getting the item if the auction has a "no reserve" feature. But when an auction is over, it's over. If the item didn't sell, Ebay still gets paid its rightful listing fee but not a final selling auction fee and the Seller is free to either re-list or not re-list.

But don't use the eBay messaging system or else it's construed as a continuation of the auction.

Once you're comfortable with a Seller, you can buy anything you want from them not currently listed on eBay.

Of course, if you do buy something that isn't sold via an eBay auction you have none of the protections that eBay offers to protect Buyers; but if you use PayPal & pay via your credit card, you're doubly protected if things go bad.

 

I would never end one early if It had a Bid on it... Also I have only done this twice.. maybe three times... And It was on Items I had on Craigs List.. If the EBAY had a bid.. I would end the CL ad..
Ouch.. sorry to start a firestorm.. I just wanted to know the LAW since it was mentioned in the first or second post... I guess I shouldn't have said I have done it.. I am honest.. I have done it.. yes.. I agree it cuts Ebay out.. and that is wrong.

 

wrongo

Wrongo.

Check the FTC website re: auction transactions conducted via interstate commerce instrumentalities including the internet.

Check also with one of the big classic car auto auction firms on TV like Jackson Hewitt where you see phone/ computer bidding for $100,000+ cars. Enforcing those auction purchases is light years easier for JH simply because it DOES involve interstate commerce laws just 'cause the Buyer used his phone or computer to place his winning bid.

Forcing a winning purchaser standing in the tent in Phoenix to fork over all of the $100,000+ for that classic car he just won is a lot harder contract for JH to enforce specific performance on.

It's all simple contract law applied to interstate commerce (UCC).

BTW, eBay has some auctions for cars, houses, planes etc that reach into the millions and while eBay's initial listing fees may be based only on an auction that starts out at $0.99, eBay's final selling fees are substantial. They have a strong interest in making sure people aren't cheating them out of their final auction fees.

 

Interesting that eBay has plenty of time and manpower to address these issues that affect THEIR income, but don't have the time of day to address OUR loss of income due to fakes being sold illegally. We're not the bad guys here and we don't have the kind of cash that eBay generates. I don't think think they'll ever go broke, but WE might. lol

 

true, but...

eBay has gotten its appendage caught in the legal wringer over allowing people to sell fake stuff like Tiffanys jewelry, Coach purses, etc. so they do try & purge their site of fakes once they know about them.

That's also why they have some pretty good buyers guides posted re: fake coins, etc.

 

Yes, there are laws that definitely affect / control such auctions - most notably mail fraud - but I found none that were written just for internet auctions. Likewise, I found none that said anything about side deals.

However, when you say its "simple contract law applied to interstate commerce", you are absolutely correct. Those laws are valid, enforceable, and definitely prohibit side deals when it is in the contract enveryone joining eBay signs.

 

The UCC is applicable to eBay auctions

I guess you failed to see this posted in the above-referenced eBay site:

"nothing in this agreement shall modify the governing provisions of California Commercial Code § 2401(2) and Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2)."

See also http://www.tinaja.com/glib/ebaybuy.pdf which says:

"If accepted, a high bid becomes an enforceable contract under the Uniform Commercial Code. By law, you are not permitted to negotiate further after the auction closes. What you agreed to is what you agreed to. If you have any questions about shipping and handling charges, delivery times, or the item condition/history/features, or whatever, always ask before you bid!

If you attempt to "warn" others about perceived "problems" in any other eBay auctions, it is you that will get hung out to dry. Under both eBay rules and the Uniform Commercial Code, these are actionable offenses collectively known as auction interference. Same goes for posting anything specific about another eBay member in any public forum. Or for tampering with another auction by

making nonserious or ultimately retracted bids."​

 

I guess you failed to read it. It mentions interstate auctions not, does not just apply to internet auctions, and has nothing to do with side deals on eBay.

That specifically states what I have been saying. If the high bid is not accepted, then the seller may do as he pleases - make any side deals he desires. The only thing that binds the seller is the contract with eBay.

 

wrong again

1. Internet auctions ARE interstate commerce subject to federal law. You use the internet to conduct the auction; PayPal or some other financial institution subject to federal laws to pay for the item; and the mail or its equivalent (Fed Ex, UPS, etc) to deliver the item, all of which are "instrumentalities" subject to applicable federal laws.

See the FTC website:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/tech/tec07.shtm

2. The high bid is automatically accepted under eBay rules that the Seller & Buyer contractually agreed to: specific performance is required once the auction closes.

All of this is why eBay references the applicability of the UCC.

 

Riddle me this

So, you agree that contract law applies to eBay auctions, right?

Question: If I'm in Maryland and I win an eBay auction with a Seller in Texas, which state laws would apply in enforcing the contract law governing the transaction? In other words, where did the transaction take place, Maryland or Texas?

Answer: In reality, it took place in neither state. It was accomplished in the "cyberspace" of the internet. Federal domain, that internet.

And, as I pointed out before: to conduct the auction; pay for the auction item; and ship the auction item involves federal domain "instrumentalities" at each step.

You're trying to argue with someone whose job is to enforce federal securities laws which rely solely on "use of interstate commerce instrumentalities" to exert federal jurisdiction.

 

Then show me the law that applies to side deals. You cannot, because it does not exist. The law is the contract you signed with eBay. PERIOD.

BTW, if you are in charge of enforcing laws, you should know whether it is Texas law or Maryland law. So what you are saying is that if I need to sue someone for not receiving something, I should go to federal court? WRONG!

 

Appicable federal law enforcement governing eBay auctions

Here's a link to the federal law enforcement website which governs eBay and other internet fraud matters:

The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) was established as a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C)

http://www.ic3.gov/about/default.aspx