An Ebay rip??

majorbigtime · 09-12-2009, 09:19 AM

Was this a rip? Ebay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380155135158&ssPageNam e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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RARE 1795 1 (FLOWING HAIR LIBERTY) SILVER DOLLAR COIN

Item condition:Circulated
Ended:Sep 09, 200917:00:00 PDT
Bid history:8 bids

Winning bid:US $2,605.00

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**Speedy** · 09-12-2009, 09:27 AM

Well my question would be - was that plug in the center done by the Mint?

Speedy

kanga · 09-12-2009, 09:34 AM

Looks to me like VG-10 to F-12.
On that alone the price is quite fair.
BUT
Is it a silver plug variety, or just made to look like that?
Need someone familiar with the issue (not me) to make that judgment.
If yes, then still a fair price.
If no, then damaged and someone paid way too much.

Treashunt · 09-12-2009, 11:46 AM

I don't know, but it sure looks nice to me.

But: he says " solid sterling silver coin" So, I guess that it is a fake.

majorbigtime · 09-12-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treashunt

I don't know, but it sure looks nice to me.

But: he says " solid sterling silver coin" So, I guess that it is a fake.

Or he's a flake?

kanga · 09-12-2009, 12:16 PM

The more I look, the less I like.
And I'm talking about the seller, not the coin.

98.6% feedback!

But I really like this:
"The seller of this item is away until September 26, 2009. You may purchase this item, but there may be a delay in processing your order."

Conder101 · 09-14-2009, 03:15 PM

At first glanc I thought real with silver plug. But the edges of the "plug" seem to be ABOVE the surface of the coin. That shouldn't be the case since the planchet would have been plugged before striking and its edges smoothed into that of the surface of the coin. Also there seems to be no trace of the plug on the reverse of the coin. (That is possible, some of the genuine plagged dollars only show on one side but it is unusual.) Finally even if it is real it is not a bargin because while everyone has been concentrating on the "plug" they have all seemed to have missed the severe damage that has been done to the edge of the coin. (10:00 on the obverse pictured above but even worse on the reverse pictured in the auction link.)

majorbigtime · 09-14-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conder101

Also there seems to be no trace of the plug on the reverse of the coin. (That is possible, some of the genuine plagged dollars only show on one side but it is unusual.)

I beleive I can see traces of the plug on the reverse. Also, the 2X2 plastic may exaggerate the edge situation.

19Lyds · 09-14-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conder101

At first glanc I thought real with silver plug. But the edges of the "plug" seem to be ABOVE the surface of the coin. That shouldn't be the case since the planchet would have been plugged before striking and its edges smoothed into that of the surface of the coin. Also there seems to be no trace of the plug on the reverse of the coin. (That is possible, some of the genuine plagged dollars only show on one side but it is unusual.) Finally even if it is real it is not a bargin because while everyone has been concentrating on the "plug" they have all seemed to have missed the severe damage that has been done to the edge of the coin. (10:00 on the obverse pictured above but even worse on the reverse pictured in the auction link.)

Looks to me like reflective glare from the 2x2 plastic in both instances.

Say Conder, ever consider moving your "slab generation" threads over here?

yakpoo · 09-14-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanga

The more I look, the less I like.
And I'm talking about the seller, not the coin.

98.6% feedback!

But I really like this:
"The seller of this item is away until September 26, 2009. You may purchase this item, but there may be a delay in processing your order."

Sounds like he wants a head start.

900fine · 09-14-2009, 08:36 PM

I think it's genuine. B-4, r.3. VG10 details. I've never seen a specimen of the Silver Plug, so I can't comment on that.

According to Reiver, Ken Bresset delivered a paper to the ANS in October 1993. Here is a quote :

During mid-1795, an experiment was tried in the mint to salvage lightweight planchets by inserting a dowel, or plug, in the center of the piece and then striking it with normal dies. There would be no need to drill a hole, or remove any metal. A simple piercing with a sharp instrument would leave an opening where a pin or dowel could be inserted. The effect after striking would would be to round over the exposed tips on each side of the coin, much like the rivets used in building construction...

If this is true, then there is no reason why the punched hole (and subsequent dowel) would have to go all the way through the coin, though Reiver does mention the plug is visible on both sides... at least on the coins known to him as of 1999.

yakpoo · 09-15-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 900fine

I think it's genuine. B-4, r.3. VG10 details. I've never seen a specimen of the Silver Plug, so I can't comment on that.

According to Reiver, Ken Bresset delivered a paper to the ANS in October 1993. Here is a quote :

During mid-1795, an experiment was tried in the mint to salvage lightweight planchets by inserting a dowel, or plug, in the center of the piece and then striking it with normal dies. There would be no need to drill a hole, or remove any metal. A simple piercing with a sharp instrument would leave an opening where a pin or dowel could be inserted. The effect after striking would would be to round over the exposed tips on each side of the coin, much like the rivets used in building construction...

If this is true, then there is no reason why the punched hole (and subsequent dowel) would have to go all the way through the coin, though Reiver does mention the plug is visible on both sides... at least on the coins known to him as of 1999.

Thanks for that info...I've learned a lot about the 1795 silver dollar from following this thread. I'm not a collector of early silver dollars (can't afford it)...but I do have a lot of experience buying coins on eBay. This one have red flags all over it...

1. Why isn't a coin of that value slabbed?
2. 98.6% feedback?
3. He shows pictures of how "weathered" the 2x2 is.
4. "Solid Sterling Silver" ...BIG clue!
5. Did you notice that he didn't guarantee the item as "authentic"? He only guarantees it to be "as described".
6. Is this guy what you would consider to be an experienced, trustworthy Numismatist?

Years ago I bought a cable descrambler from a guy ("Larry") in Boca Raton, FL. Great descrambler...but I wouldn't buy a coin from that guy!

Conder101 · 09-15-2009, 09:40 PM

I took another look at the coin and I still don't think it is glare from the plastic of the 2X2.

majorbigtime · 10-18-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conder101

I took another look at the coin and I still don't think it is glare from the plastic of the 2X2.

I will come out of the closet and admit that I now own it. Mr. Conder, like Fonzie in a famous Happy Days episode, is wrrrrroooong. The dark spots are from the cellophane on the 2X2.

I took it to a local show, and the dealers were drooling all over it. After I dried it off, I sent it out to PCGS for slabbing. I think it may have a shot at VF20, but may be overly optimistic.