"The Tribute Penny"

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by ArtDeco, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    I found an interesting article that talks about the "tribute penny" which was likely shown to Jesus in Judea at the time of Tiberius' rein. He/she states that the tribute penny must not have been a denarius but a provincial tetradrachm with a Tiberius obverse and an Augustus reverse.

    Here is the article,
    https://anglicanfocus.org.au/2020/06/01/the-denarius-in-mark-12-15/


    Here is my Lungdunum minted coin of Tiberius which was initially thought to be the correct style of "tribute penny",

    upload_2021-4-26_8-24-15.png
    Ric I 20 (C)
    18.8mm
    3.08 g.



    What do you guys think was the real "tribute penny"? Could it be true that no roman denarius was ever circulated in Judea at the time and the actual coin shown to Jesus was a Tyrian minted provincial coin?
     
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  3. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Excellent example!
    Here are my usual suspects:
    The one sold as if it was (it's a great way to get folks to pay extra for a common type):
    share5181588489343330270.png

    The even more common one that was certainly still in circulation (Jesus may have actually bitten this coin to test its authenticity!):
    share3948404490664730758.png
    And one I just won over the weekend with some silly vandalism(?) looking like Augustus is spitting a loogie:
    1825382_1618171287.l-removebg-preview.png

    My best guess is that the story was made up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  4. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    I love the questions, but for starters be sure to see all these threads below (keeping in mind it is just a partial list of threads on this subject just here on CoinTalk):
    Which Tiberius Denarii Qualify as a “Tribute Penny?”
    What Was the Tribute Penny?
    Six Caesars of the Tribute Penny
    Which Coin Was the Tribute Penny (a Video).
    Real Tribute Penny?


    Bottom-line is that we will never know. However, not surprisingly, that doesn't stop people from developing dogmatic opinions. Now that you have read the opinion by Peter Lewis (for whom I have great respect), you should be interested to also read this rebuttal:
    http://the-ans.com/Tribute Penny Lewis Deconstruction 1601.pdf
     
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  5. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    Part 2:

    Below are five coins from my collection which each has been suggested as a possibility for the Tribute Penny. These five are certainly not an exhaustive presentation of the types that could have been used.

    upload_2021-4-26_9-26-19.png

    upload_2021-4-26_9-28-28.png
     
  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..hey..ya get this lil fella and..you've got one o de 12 Caesars in silver...:D tiberius denari 001.JPG tiberius denari 002.JPG
     
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  7. Antonius Britannia

    Antonius Britannia Well-Known Member

    Great looking "Tribute Penny" Twelve Caesars in silver is a terrific collecting goal!
     
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  8. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

  9. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    This topic comes up quite frequently. From a strictly numismatic perspective, yes, there were few if any denarii in circulation in Judaea at that time. On the other hand, the gospel states explicitly that Jesus asked for a "denarius" (δηνάριον, Mark 12:15). Arguments about which coins may or may not have been available in Judaea miss the point, it seems to me. The "tribute penny" that matters is the one in the mind of the writer, historically accurate or not.
     
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  10. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..idk about the coin used....but this guy here had for sale the bill of the last supper...:D father guido sarducci.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  11. Antonius Britannia

    Antonius Britannia Well-Known Member

    14123.jpg

    My example ex Davissons auctions
     
  12. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Wow, spot on example of Augustus!
     
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  13. Antonius Britannia

    Antonius Britannia Well-Known Member

  14. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I have been involved in similar threads on this question as they have come up. For whatever it is worth, the archaeological record for denarii in circulation ca.30 AD is not well understood. Denarii of both Augustus and Tiberius show up in the record but seem to have been from finds several decades later than 30-33 AD. The silver coinage of Caesarea seems to have been in circulation in abundance from before Roman rule to well into the First Century AD (and well after that) and drachmas from Caesarea look quite a bit like the denarii from Lugdunum. As an example of this I have next to each other the traditional Tiberius Tribute Penny weighing 3.9 grams and one of the Caesarea drachmas I think may have been more likely to have been circulating at the time of Christ in Judea. As a well worn drachma it weighs 3.41 grams and has on the obverse the image of Tiberius' son Drusus and on the reverse is Tiberius. Because the images of the two are the same size it can be difficult to distinguish the obverse from the reverse. This drachma coin is pictured and described in Seaby's Roman Silver Coins, Vol 2 on page two, where it is # 3, the version where the image of Drusus is bare of any inscription. On the side with Tiberius there is a Latin inscription (only partially legible here) TI. CAES. AVG. P. M. TR P.XXXIV. If these two coins were both in circulation ca. 32 or 33 AD I think they could have been seen by the average man-in-the- street in Judea as two examples of the same Roman coinage. The top coins are the images of Tiberius, (denarius, left, drachma right) on the bottom, seated Livia (a denarius) and Drusus (on the right) the drachma. Just thought I'd put in my two pennies worth into the discussion.

    IMG_1988Tiberius book obv.jpg IMG_1987Tiberiusw cap drachma rev..jpg
     
  15. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  16. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    All I can con-tribute with is the following

    0040-210.jpg

    Q
     
  17. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I have no idea what coin the author of Mark had in mind when he wrote his gospel and used the word "denarius," but this one is called a tribute penny and it's the first ancient coin I ever acquired. I'm not going to miss an opportunity to show it!

    [​IMG]
    Tiberius, AD 14-37.
    Roman AR Denarius, 3.87 g, 18.5 mm, 5 h.
    Lugdunum, AD 16-37.
    Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS, laureate head, right.
    Rev: PONTIF MAXIM, Female figure seated right, holding long olive branch and inverted spear; legs of chair ornate, triple line below.
    Refs: RIC 28; BMCRE 42-44; RSC 16b; RCV 1763 var.
    Notes: The identity of the female figure on the reverse is uncertain.
     
  18. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    I thought it was either PAX or Livia on the reverse.
     
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  19. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Exactly. So which one is it? That's why the identity of the female figure on the reverse is uncertain.
     
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  20. ArtDeco

    ArtDeco Well-Known Member

    Or wasn't it "Livia as Pax" as I've read so many times on sold auctions ect. ?
     
  21. Steelers72

    Steelers72 Well-Known Member

    I have pondered the possible coins it could have been; makes sense for it to be a coin of Tiberius’ reign, or maybe a circulated coin from Augustus’?

    In any event, here is my example of the ornate chair variety:
    44DBE2E0-B809-439D-B9B5-93C44F2E736B.jpeg
     
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