Best low-end bullion investments for survival?

Billincolo, I did the exact same thing. I've bought about $3,000 worth of silver. Mainly quarters and rounds, quite a few morgans and the such. Nothing of any real numismatic value. I figured in a barter situation it would be easier to deal with than gold.

 

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Thanks Mark -- that's kind of what I'm thinking too. I'm looking at some 90% silver 1/4 bags, etc.

 

I'm not arguing. I've always heard about these "stocking up for the end of the civilized world" type folks but I never actually met any. So, the entire way of thinking is very foreign to me but thanks for the information. I buy silver regularly but not for "survival" or bartering for food and water after the fall of the government purposes. I just like having some savings in precious metals. I guess I'm positioned for the end of days without even realizing it.

I've been buying bullion for the last 20 years and thanks to dollar cost averaging, I have no complaints.

Thanks again and good luck with your purchases.

 

If things reach the point where we are in a "barter system" that means the federal, state and local governments have failed. After the governments fail so will support services (police, fire, public works); one might be better off with a shotgun than silver dollars.

Now for investments, a little bullion can't hurt. There are also precious metal IRA's

 

In my case, I view silver as just another investment vehicle. A cold-blooded analysis of silver led me to believe that at any price below about $25, silver is very undervalued. If silver becomes overvalued, I'll probably sell my bullion coins but always keep the numismatic coins. So I'm part investor and part collector.

 

I am not exactly preparing for the end of days (Andrew289). You seem to be getting some extra exercise here by jumping to conclusions about "'stocking up for the end of the civilized world'-type folks" -- people whom you admit you've never met. If you've never met any, I'm wondering how you've gained the position to make any comments about "them" at all?

What are investments for, at their base?: protection of value. Now that the president and congress have spent SO much money, I am expecting inflation to set in. When that happens, my dollar bills will get less valuable, but I expect silver and gold to get more valuable. ... I agree that silver is undervalued. It's at about 68:1 with gold right now. Many crystal-ball swamis out there seem to think it will go to about 40:1, which would put it at $23+, the target point at which I'd sell the rounds, etc., but keep the 90% junk coins.

So, more than an "end of days" measure, I'm simply looking at "hard times investments," admittedly with a bit of survival flavor. if nothing like that happens, I'm no worse off; if it does, I'm protected. Just "insurance."

And as someone above said, a shotgun might be good, too. I've had one for years. Now, I've gotta skedaddle and go see if the camouflage paint on the Hummer is dry yet ... :rolling:

 

Good question. I've gained that position by reading about several anti-government fringe groups like the Montana Freemen and others out west who await the collapse of the U.S. government and the U.S. banking system (which seems to be well on the way to actually happening). I simply find their dogma intriguing.

 

There are extremists to be found in every camp. Reading about them is not the same as knowing them. Here in Colorado, there are quite a few such groups, and going to their meetings is a much better way of getting to know them as people, with real and valid concerns -- than reading about them. Many are pretty much the same as other humans, with two ears that they keep close to the ground, two feet firmly planted in soil protected by the US Constitution, families that are intact, and a set of principles to whose adherence would benefit the USA at large. They are the ones most like those who founded this country: Insisting on fairness and wisdom in the governance of the nation. In recent times, we seem to have lost sight of those two.

But, getting a little political and I know that's not allowed ... so I'm signing off. I have some of the information I originally sought.

 

Some history; I started collecting Morgan BU dollars in the late 70's as affordable collectable coins. (I had caught the collecting bug saving peenies as a boy.) But when the Hunt Brothers ran up silver to $45-$50 an ounce, my common BU dollars had already doubled and tripled in value. Took some nice profits then but also kept the rarer collectables which paid off later in the coin certifications.

It's impossible to accurately predict the future, but having some gold and/or silver bullion in your portfolio gives you options when things go to he_ _ or if things get better. Not having any gives less options and perhaps serious regrets.

Like any investment, not all your eggs in one basket.
And having a dependable firearm can be a good idea also. Better to have it and not need it, than need it real bad and not have it available.

 

Totally agree. Congrats on riding the Hunt Brothers' silver wave. Wish Ihad done that!

 

That's what I have read. Unfortunately, I don't live out west and there aren't to many of those folks around these parts. I live/work within a stones throw of the Charter's of Freedom (yeah, the original handwritten ones).

 

Good discussion, and I totally agree with you Billincolo. My same thoughts exactly given the current economy. I started out purchasing bullion, moved into more of a "collector" mentality, and now I'm doing a little of both.

As far as US gold is concerned, the absolute best bang for buck IMO is modern $5 commemoratives. The last one I bought, an 1986 statue of liberty proof, I paid dead on spot for. Absolutely no premium. If you search on ebay, these can be had very very close to spot. The AGEs tend to sell at substantial premiums in comparison.

As for silver, I like the 90% junk personally. It is easy to diversify due to the large amount of denominations, and it is very familiar. Not likely to be counterfeit(at least at this point). ASE's are gorgeous, but I also see them at substantial premiums. Still, a few ASE's would be good to have in a portfolio.

BTW, I am by no means an investor; but I do a lot of looking around pricewise. This is purely an opinion, which is what you asked for.

 

Thanks Johnny -- Good info. You guys lost an F22 out there yesterday, didn't you? ... bummer for the pilot's family.

Bill

 

Silver art bars

Recently I purchased an estate coin collection from a lady who works at the same place as I do. Mostly I bought it for the complete set of Franklin halfs and quite a few Walking Liberty halfs. But included also were about 20 one ounce silver bars. I started watching some of them on ebay where they are sold as Art bars and touted as very collectible and some are said to be rare.
I see some of the buy it now prices listed at $35 to $49.00.
My investment was probably $10 to $12 each. Some of them like the Boston Tea Party, The General steam locomotive, a San Francisco trolley car, a Model T Ford, a Stanley steamer, The Alamo, etc. are listed as rare. And the asking prices are way up there compared to what I used to think a one ounce bar was worth.
Now mind you I have paid as much as $17 for a name brand one oz. bar like Englehard.
A dealer told me he used to collect art bars and there "used to be" quite a following for them. I never paid attention to them focusing more on actual US coinage. But now that I have a collection of them I find they are interesting and unique in their own way. Each is an ounce of .999 fine silver.
So given all of the above does anyone collect these? And does anyone want to comment on this topic as far as a low end investment goes?

 

My only comment would be ... congratulations! A 1-ounce silver bar is a 1-ounce silver bar. As bullion, you've probably made a good investment. As for the collectibles value ... I have no idea. (Sort of in the same boat with a collection of Normal Rockwell plates from my Mom-in-law at the moment. But plates aren't made of a valuable substance, darn it.)

 

There was a 2.1 ounce .999 silver bar [1000 grains] by the Hamilton Mint.
It had a copy of Norman Rockwell's "Freedom of Worship" on it.
I ended up trading it away for a nice Canadian large cent.

 

I live in cali (out west) & there "MANY of those folks" around here.

Good for pm's! more people buyin is good for all that been holdin'm

 

Survival...

I'm a newbie, and I don't know nothing.

It's pretty obvious to me that the US will get nuked someday. History will be viewed in terms of pre-nuke and post-nuke. Of course things could get bad before the nuclear event. Remember Jimmy Carter? When things get scarce, our current government could do what Jimmy did, price controls. That means things will dissappear, like gasoline did in the 1970's. I think people should buy things they'll need in the future, like food and tools. I wouldn't advise investing in the stock market, or bonds, or in keeping cash.

I believe we'll be going to a single world currency within 5 years. I'm trying to figure how that will affect the price of gold and silver.

 

Wow. Talk about not planning for the best ...

 

Hi Bill,

In my chequered career, I've fraternized with quite a few gold bugs--and am probably one myself--and have observed four different scenarios that worry them ... resulting in activities which range from relatively orthodox modern portfolio theory to out-and-out survivalism.

The first is the danger of stock or bond market collapse. This happens at least once a decade, and the appropriate response is diversification. If Wall Street collapses, then gold is more likely to rise than fall. In statistician's jargon, the gold price is uncorrelated with the markets. By an amazing piece of mathematical luck, even though the gold price is far more volatile than the stock market, adding a modest percentage of gold to your portfolio actually reduces its volatility. A journalist for the New York Times some years ago crunched the numbers and claimed that the optimum amount of gold was about 6%.

The other three scenarios are varying degrees of rainy day, against which you wish to hedge, ie insure, your savings. Every 20 or 30 years the financial markets, aided by the politicians, collectively lose their minds. I know you won't believe me but it can happen! In the pain that follows, people a long way removed from finance all too often suffer ... and at exactly the wrong time their savings lose their value. In my own family in the relatively recent past, the early 1930s and the late 1940s were very bad; the mid 1970s were bad. A holding of precious metals, either silver or gold, can ease the pain substantially. Typically, this sort of gold bug owns one-ounce gold coins and hundred-ounce silver bars.

The third case is much worse. This is when you have no option but to flee where you are which what you can carry. The last time this happened to large numbers of people in the US was during the War Between the States; in Great Britain it was during the Highland Clearances of the 18th century. So we don't worry about it that much. But every couple of hundred years or so, the cycle goes around and the quiet areas of the World become the Vietnam of the 1970s, the Yugoslavia of the 1990s, or the Somalia of to-day. To hedge against this level of disaster, you need gold: a hundred ounces of gold is quite a weight, but a family could carry it between them ... the equivalent fifth of a ton of silver would be impossible.

The fourth, and least likely, case is the complete breakdown of the country, when there is nowhere to run to. Some who are not themselves survivalists criticise this view by regarding it as a World gone back to the Stone Age. But at any time, there is usually one country in the World which has failed so badly that there is no working money there: at present I think that Zimbabwe is the prime tragic example. They can use the US dollar as hard currency. But what happens if it is the US dollar that has failed completely? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Probable: no. Possible: yes. Is it worth buying insurance against this possibility? That's up to you. For this purpose, one-ounce gold coins and hundred-ounce silver bars are too large. Even a tenth-ounce gold coin is worth about as much as a hundred-dollar bill. Survivalists seem to go for tenth-ounce and quarter-ounce Eagles, one-ounce silver rounds, and bags of junk silver ... and then let this holding act as their hedge against the first three scenarios.

Later,

John