What is the purpose of CAC?

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Every single person I have seen who posts on the different coin forums who has submitted coins to CAC admits that they learned more about coin grading by doing so. Keep in mind that novice collectors don't submit to CAC, we are talking about experienced numismatists who have been dealing in 4 or 5 figure coins for years.

However, since you think that your coin grading skills are infallible, it doesn't surprise me in the least that you think they are completely unnecessary.

 

I have been perfectly aware of this. Lehigh already posted the exact point I was getting at.

It's almost always the people with no experience with them that take the positions that have been expressed.

Experience means actually using or interacting with the subject in question. I'm not an experienced rocket scientists because I watched a NASA launch on TV, nor could I tell you about the inner workings of Mars Inc because I ate a Twix yet that is basically what so many like to do with CAC.

There is a reason why the people that actually have experience with CAC have the opinions they do which overall are very different than those that think they know everything and that they couldn't learn anything from them

 

PS for all that think that CAC doesn't care about collectors at all, the founder JA is/was also a founder and President of the Numismatic Consumer Alliance which is a non profit that helps recover money for collectors that were scammed. They recovered millions over the years for people, not sure if it's still active.

But yes CAC is there to make money for themselves, but you can make money and still care about something else as well.

 

The Oxford Dictionary defines subjective as: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. If we go back over 30 years, we can see the World Book Dictionary defining it as follows: existing in the mind; belonging to the person thinking rather than the object thought of. Ideas and opinions are subjective; facts are objective.

Aside from simpler words for simpler minds, the meaning has not changed. When bombarded by propaganda, advertising, and hoopla surrounding "third party grading" and its offspring, how soon we forget one of the major premises of numismatics: Grading is subjective.

I, too, have never submitted anything to a TPG or to CAC. But, I do understand the premise behind both. One provides a service to obtain their opinion of the authenticity and grade of your coin. I personally find the authenticity aspect of these services to be quite useful. However, the fact still remains: Their grade is still subjective and thus only an opinion and not fact.

The term grading skills is an oxymoron. Grading is your own biased opinion. Sure, you may work that opinion through a formulated progressive technical standard. But, in the end, it is still your opinion. And your opinion is neither right nor wrong (barring obviously ignoring the standards you claim to abide by).

Now, CAC reviews coins that had been submitted for a TPGs opinion and gives you their own opinion regarding the TPGs opinion. Some find this second opinion useful. Others prefer to simply hold their faith in the original TPG. And others still prefer to educate themselves with whatever resources they choose and hold to their own feelings, their own tastes, and their own opinions.

I am of the latter and personally find no value in all this nonsense.

You do understand that CAC is a market maker for the coins they "bean", right? I would suggest that it is not a thing of people "think(ing) they know everything" so much as seeing a broader picture of the situation. My purpose is not to sit here and CAC-bash. As I said before, some people find their services to be helpful, and that is their right to hold to such opinions.

However, a corporation has a legal responsibility to make it's share holders money (over-simplification). They have no legal responsibility to the industry or its constituents outside of their responsibility to its share holders. Now, they charge you to review an opinion made by another corporation to either agree or disagree with it. Then they mark the "product" with a promise to help push it through the market by buying similarly marked "products" on their own exchange at their own arbitrary buy/sell spreads (being the market maker).

Some don't see a problem with this, and this is majorly an over-simplification of the situation. But, I would most definitely have a problem with going into a shop, finding a coin that the dealer states is a certain grade and having some "well known" person of the industry offer to examine it for $xx with the promise to buy it for what he thinks it's worth if he agrees with the grade.

Hmm....

 

Since when is CAC a big corporation?

I am done arguing this as you can feel free to post this and everything else you said on the CU forum and see how that goes if you wish.

Right, why would someone find value in expert opinions?

Yes they put their money where their mouth is.

Where do these internet grading experts back up their opinion, what guarantee do I have because I believed a GTG thread or people that haven't been involved in numismatics for years?

 

When it comes to selling coins, the only OPINION that matters, is that of the TPGs. If your coin is graded, you will instantly see fair market value offers. If your coin is graded and certified by CAC, your coin will achieve maximum value and liquidity.

IMO, most of your post is nonsense. If you think an 12 year old can grade with the same expertise as a PCGS grader and explain away the obvious difference in accuracy by saying "grading is subjective" then I submit that your opinion on the subject is completely worthless.

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/need-help-grading.279102/

Coin was apparently downgraded on re-submission to a 64
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/segs-not-honoring-guarantee.279756/

I find it relevant since it's being argued seeing pictures of something is supposedly the same as actual experience.

 

Here is a yes or no question. Do you think you are better at grading coins than John Albanese? Yes or No?

 

There's no purpose to it. Just money. It's an endorsement.

 

Same question to you as Doug then. Do you think you can grade better than JA?

 

That's a loaded question, as market grading is pretty grading, and it assumes there's a pretty grade, when there isn't. What's more, as far as technical grading goes, I know 14-year-olds who could match wits with him. Face it, you're paying for his sticker, his endorsement, because it makes you feel big. Boy, did he get away with one with you.

 

There is no such thing as technical grading in the marketplace. And even if there was, no 14 year old could hold a candle to JA's grading skills. It doesn't matter if you think CAC stickers are useless, the fact is they increase both value and liquidity for expensive coins, something you know very little about.

 

You mean he undoubtedly knows more about most coins than you do, and you may have more knowledge on a few obscure series like European Gold Ducats.

Face it Doug, this guy has seen every high value US Coin there is. You always preach to this forum that your knowledge comes from seeing thousands upon thousands of coins. Well guess what, JA has seen many more coins than you have. He basically created the TPGs and now runs CAC. What is your numismatic accomplishment besides attempting to be the big fish in the small pond that is Cointalk?

 

Their knowledge and ability is exactly why something stickers or doesn't. Trying to claim it has nothing to do with that is basically just saying they're randomly stickering things hoping to get lucky

Actually it's both. You keep referring to what you are seeing with your own eyes and your experience with quotes like this in post 139, "All you have to do is look at them to see everything you need to see. And when it comes to seeing the coins, yeah I have seen thousands upon thousands of them. Both in hand and in pictures.

That's all the experience anybody needs !" that is directly referencing your knowledge and ability for your argument. So yes it is extremely relevant that JA has more knowledge and experience than those being critical