[Poll-4] #4 ancientcoinguru vs #29 Theodosius (Round 1) CIT 2018

Welcome to Round 1 (Group 2) of CIT 2018! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun on the following link:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ancients-it’s-time-the-second-annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/



I want to give a special thank you to the participants for volunteering to play the game. We have a great group of people here at CT.

............................................................​

#4 @ancientcoinguru


The Perrhaiboi (also spelled Perrhaebi)
Ca. 450-400 B.C.
Thessaly, Olosson or Phalanna mint.
AR trihemiobol (14 mm, 1.04 g, 3 h)
Obv: Warrior on horseback, wearing petasos and holding two lances, riding left; below, small altar.
Rev: Π-[E]-P-A, Athena seated left, holding helmet; all within incuse square.
Reference: BCD Thessaly II 547.
Provenance: Ex BCD Collection

Price: $109

Why It’s Cool:
This charming coin was minted by The Perrhaiboi (Περραιβοί), an ancient Greek people who lived in northern Thessaly, bordering Macedonia. They were warriors who took part in the Trojan War under Guneus and also fought in the Battle of Thermopylae.

I was drawn to this coin because of the artistry of its design, which gives us a glimpse into the life of an ancient Greek people.

I like small Greek coins, they show so much imagination and artistry! It’s those little details that make Greek coins so special. This trihemiobol gives us an insight into the Perrhaiboi.

• It has a warrior on the obverse, mounted on his horse with 2 spears. Below the horse is an altar (praying to the gods to keep him safe and victorious).
• Best known as the goddess of wisdom, Athena was also the goddess of prudent intelligence in war, favoring the use of strategy and guile as a means to victory. Since Athena is holding a warrior’s helmet on the reverse, this coin says (to me) that Athena was granting the Perrhaiboi victory in war, how cool is that!

What’s not to like about this coin? It is a lovely coin with old collection toning, an even dark gray patina, and an excellent provenance (Ex BCD Collection)

............................................................​

#29 @Theodosius


Campania, Neapolis
AR Nomos, 300-275 BC, 19mm, 7.35 g, 7 h.
Obverse: Diademed head of nymph left; behind, ladle.
Reverse: [N]EOΠOΛITΩN, man-headed bull walking right, head facing; above, Nike flying right, crowning bull with wreath; below, BI.
References: SNG BN 822; SNG ANS 393; HN Italy 579.
Fine artistic style. Thin die-break on obverse.

Price: $450

Why It’s Cool:
Why it is cool: My main collecting interest is artistic coins, so I had to play one of my recent favorites. This coin appealed to me for its delicate and ethereal rendering of the nymph’s features and neatly organized hair with a few stray curls. The man-headed bull is strongly rendered with a little wear unfortunately obscuring part of his face. While not an inexpensive coin, to get such a well preserved example of quality Greek art for this price was a good deal.

Neapolis (modern Naples) is historic for several reasons: it is one of the oldest continuously inhabited urban areas in the world, and it is the place of the origin of pizza! - Wikipedia

............................................................​

Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the floor to comments, pile-ons and shameless lobbying.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Another hard choice!! Great job pairing these @Curtisimo.

Edit:I think you forgot to tag Theodosius at the top of his entry

 

@Curtisimo , I love the format of the poll where why the coin is interesting is specifically addressed. The poll responses are listed as three for one member and then the corresponding three for the other. It would be easier to vote if they were paired. e.g. Eye appeal, member X, member Y. Best Bargain, member X, member Y.
Historical or numismatic interest: member X, member Y

Rather than having to decide whether to select
Option 1 vs Option 4, 2 vs 5, and 3 vs 6,
we could decide on Option 1 vs Option 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs. 6.

It is just a thought.

 

The historical/numismatic writeups in this matchup are both driven more by how the coins made the owners feel than by what they know. Long on imagination but short on actual information I was inclined to leave that choice out. However, Guru did point us to a less publicized ancient population whereas Theo asserted that Neapolis was historically significant without explaining that (except for pizza and durability).

I was impressed by the image of Venus on the trihemiobol which has a special delicacy, but I was blown away by the left facing bust of the nymph on the Neapolitan coin. Not surprising since the larger coin had more room for more intricate detail.

The biggest eye opener for me came from digging into the cost aspect, for which I did searches on CNG. The nomos was plentiful and the coins were not very pricey in general, but most were not as nice as this one and sold in the 100-280 range. When they did get nice the price still did not get up much above 400 except in a few cases. So this one was priced at about the expected market.
The very trihemiobol shown here was sold by CNG in 2013 for just above $160 (with buyers fee) plus shipping. However, they are seldom offered and CNG has not sold one in four years. When they do sell they fetch quite a bit more than this one which was a bargain version at $160, let alone the price Guru paid. He might have said that.

 

This one was really tough for me, and it’s unfortunate I didn’t have 6 votes to give out, because I think both coins are very strong (though I have to admit I have a soft spot for little Thessalian fractions). Ultimately it seems I’ve cast my votes in accordance with the crowd so far : Eye appeal to Theo, Value and Interest to ACG.

 

As noted by both participants the greek artistry on these coins is fantastic, hard to split even eye appeal, any way I just got a coin in the mail I will flip it.

 

It looks like Theodosius's price leaves out the juice, if it was purchased in the Triskeles auction last June:

Naughty, naughty! (We're supposed to include the juice & shipping, right? )

 

Juice? (<-- noob question? Hammer fee?)

Participant rules regarding price & shipping:
Price paid for the coin (not including shipping)

 

Yup.

Oops. I guess I should be reading that stuff... But clearly it is supposed to include the juice.

 

Are you getting this from the 2017 rules? That's the only place I can find it...

 

Nope. It is part of the "welcome to the games" message we received from @Curtisimo when we entered the game. The rules in there is where that is from.

 

I enjoy knowing the personal reasons people choose the coins they do, including fanciful insights or ideas. I can look up the history at any time if so inclined, although an originally worded brief review of relevant history is always welcome.

I agree-- She did well on price with that trihemiobol. Theodosius did too-- most of these have significant centering issues.

 

Great coin @ancientcoinguru ! I really like how the reverse has Athena portrayed in a natural and introspective pose holding an everyday object, as opposed to an artificial posture holding unlikely items in a stilted way. It gives us a private glimpse of Athena at home.

The obverse is a nice composition as well. Really good choice to play!

Good matchup @Curtisimo !

John

 

+1. Beautifully said.

@Theodosius 's coin would be a highlight in my collection and it's just the sort of coin I would target. Hammer or no I think it was a great deal and I would have gladly paid that amount for it... in fact if I would have seen it in that Triskeles auction...


@ancientcoinguru made a brilliant strategic play with a fabulous coin. These small Greek coins are truly remarkable in their detail. She also got a fantastic deal and snagged it for a song!

Great coin-friends, great coins. Love it!

 

Amen brother!

 

Oops! Guilty!

Tack on another 20% for the auction fee.

I think @ancientcoinguru is going to crush me on bargain anyway.

 

Wow, two wonderful coins and a great matchup! I really enjoy both of them. They are very difficult to to determine votes! However, I feel comfortable about my voting among two great coins, and two great coin friends!

I love Greek Fractionals.

THESSALY:

Thessaly Larissa 344-337 BCE AR Obol 0.68g Nymph Larissa Horse Grazing SNG Cop 1
Ex: @ancientcoinguru


I need an UPGRADE!

ACHELOUS:

Campania Neapolis 320-300 BC AR Nomos Nymph Achelous

 

This is what makes the hobby. I agree with what Curtismo said about Theodosius' coin except I would have said it about the other coin (ACG's). I was collecting tiny treasures long before it was cool. It was a bit offensive that 'big' collections often had as many dekadrachms (50 litra pieces) as litra and finding information n smaller coins was hard. We can not fault dealers for handling coins that they know they can sell but it does get old when a show dealer asks what I seek. Say 'Greek fractional silver' and they show drachms.

I have coins from both cities and neither is anything near as nice as the contestants. That should surprise no one.

Mine is a smaller obol of different types.