42 mm Ptolemy Bronze described correctly?

Hello everyone. This Ptolemy Bronze spoke to me Sunday at our local coin show. When it spoke, the words were muffled by the plastic between us. I'm pretty sure it was trying to say "buy me collect89". The legends were easy to read & the wear, style, & surfaces were pleasing. The design is a little soft in some areas but overall the coin is the result of a relatively good strike some 2,200 years ago.

The only negative aspect of this coin may be that it resides in a fat-boy slab & is difficult to photograph. The coin is innocent so please don't hold the slab against the coin. Although the words are muffled, I believe I am hearing "free me collect89".

Is my coin label below accurate? Is that ΛI between the eagle's legs? Is it from the Alexandria mint and Series 5? Any further info, corrections, & reference numbers would be appreciated.




PTOLEMAIC KINGS OF EGYPT.
Ptolemy IV Philopater
222-205/4 BC.
Æ Drachm, 42mm
Alexandria mint, Series 5.
Obv: Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right.
Rev: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ; Eagle with closed wings standing left on thunderbolt; ΛI between legs.
Grade: gVF as described by NGC slab. Pleasing dark chocolate color with good surface & strike (not described on the NGC slab).

By the way, the coin's surfaces are really quite nice & my photos have not captured it. We may get some better photos when the coin is free of the plastic. In the mean time, Let's see some photos of your Ptolemy pond skippers.

 

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Congrats with your new hockeypuck, collect89

description is OK, its actually a cornucopia series 5 , add cornucopia in front of eagle (for the Alexandria mint) cat nr. Svoronos 1125, the weight should be around 68 gram

Here's one of my Ptolemy bronze:

 

Very nice, I look forward to seeing it outside its tomb!

Every time I post my pond skipper I paint a big fat target on my back...


Ptolemy III Euergetes (246-222 BC) octobol, Æ46, 93.27g, ex Dattari

 

Great coin with nice style, how much does it weigh?

 

Nice Score! Every collection should have one of these, hope to see it cracked soon.

Here is my big one:

Ptolemy III - 38mm, 5.8mm thick, and 46.5g (Svoronos 974)

 

Nice @Collect89 ! Fun to find great finds at a show, AND to have some time with buddy @Ancientnoob ! Your pond skipper looks great. Can I identify? I am no expert, so I cannot really go much further than you have.

I have a few of those pigs of bronze...


Egypt Ptolemy III AE Tet 41mm 7.2mm thick 67.5g Zeus Ammon Eagle Cornucopia XP Chi-Rho


Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE Tet 40mm 7.2mm thick 69.5g Zeus Ammon Eagle


Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE 33mm 35g HemiDrachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt


Egypt Ptolemy IV 221-205 BC AE 37mm 42g Drachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt SV 974


Egypt Ptolemy III 245-222 BC AE 34mm 31g HemiDrachm Zeus-Ammon Eagle Tbolt Cornucopia XP Chi-Rho SV 965

 

Sigh. Such a great coin and I'm trying very hard to restrain my jealousy .

I hear it too!! Wow, that sound carries a long long way

I see ΔI.

You probably already know but PtolemyBronze is the best online resource for attributing and learning about these coins. Not long ago the ID/denomination page was updated to reflect current scholarship. I need to go through my coins because some of the attributions have changed. I haven't looked for yours on that page.

Anyway, very nice purchase!

Here's a group shot of my Ptolemy bronzes:. Sizes range from 48 mm (91.8 gm) to 14 mm (1.7 gm). The second largest coin shown is 42 mm.



My smallest coin (5 mm) atop my largest Ptolemaic coin:

 

I think I should remeasure my diameter... given your collection, TIF jealousy is such a magnificent achievement that I want to turn the screws even more...

More seriously, what do you folks regard as best practice for measuring diameter? I usually record the widest point of the natural flan, i.e. excluding sprues, splits, etc. This doesn't seem to get discussed much.

 

Got to love such big coins.

 

I agree with your measuring system. My 89.96g shrimp is also 46mm. Diameters change according to how hard the hammer came down. It is quite possible that your coin is only 46mm and still the heaviest one.

 

Good question. If a coin is markedly out of round, I measure the widest and narrowest diameters and record it that way. Otherwise, usually measure the widest diameter, excluding any big sprue remnants or goobers.

 

Thanks for the confirmation of measurement procedure, @dougsmit and @TIF. He was already home for a visit, so I can confirm the 46mm. I suggest that TIF should try to move the goalposts. Diameter is what counts, right?!

Ew.

 

Thanks for the info & kind coin words everyone. Here is my edited label for the coin:

PTOLEMAIC KINGS OF EGYPT
Ptolemy IV Philopater
Æ Drachm
222-205/4 B.C.
67.77 grams, 42 mm
Obv: Diademed head of Zeus-
Ammon right.
Rev: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ; Eagle
with closed wings standing left
on thunderbolt, cornucopia in
front, ΛI between legs.
Grade: gVF described by NGC slab.
Pleasing dark chocolate color
with good surface & strike
(not described on NGC slab)
Other: Alexandria mint, Series 5,
Svoronos 1125. From Eye
Appealing Coins 7/15/18.

Unfortunately, I lost my photo editor program when we updated the computer operating system. I've recently loaded Corel Paintshop Pro 2018 but have not yet learned to use it.

 

What would be a decent price to expect to pay for a Ptolemy bronze?

 

Depends on the size/denomination, strike, wear, etc.

If you have a paid account with ACsearch you can check recent auction prices there. Even if you don't have a paid account, you can often locate coins on ACsearch and then check the price realized directly on the auctioneer's website.

CNG's archives are another valuable resource and it's free to use. Here's the very broad search result for the search terms "AE Ptolemy" and for "AE Ptolemaic". The results will include some silver and other items because "ae" is part of other words sometimes found in Ptolemaic coin listings.

To check current "retail" offerings, run a similar search on Vcoins.

Also run the search on eBay and check the Sold box under Advanced Search.

 

I use a KOBALT digital micrometer that my son gave me several years ago. He used one where he worked and thought it far better than what I was using. I agree.

I measure the diameter several times and record the largest and smallest numbers. I normally "report" the largest number when posting here. The coin above is 21.2 X 19.2 mm and 3.76 grams. If the two are significantly different, I report both. Your coin would get a thickness reading. Alex and Owl tets deserve a thickness reading.

When measuring thick coins, I also report the largest thickness. Most of my items that have a thickness are cast bronze.

 

Cool!

 

Very neat coin.

 

I still haven't learned to use my new photo editing program but here are some slightly better photos:

 

My three large Ptolemies (as of today). 46, 40 and 38 mm, 92, 67 and 50 gr.