Silver getting crushed today

Discussion in 'Bullion Investing' started by Soiled, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. abuckmaster147

    abuckmaster147 Well-Known Member

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  3. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

  4. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    I'm worried about the economy as a whole right now.
    So I'm holding cash.
    Just …. don't …. want …. to … pull … the … trigger … on Gold or anything.
     
  5. abuckmaster147

    abuckmaster147 Well-Known Member

    so no I should not then?
     
  6. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    if you are stacking and want to decrease your total average, it's a good time to buy.

    maybe.
    If you are buying cheaper silver at spot then it's okay.

    If you are buying ASEs .. their premiums are skyrocketing (steady prices even with dropping spots). provident is at $3.30 premium < 20, $3 for 20+.
    Monster boxes seem cheaper though.

    So it depends. Gold is doing okay. Some pre-33s are better priced.
     
    Silversloth and abuckmaster147 like this.
  7. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    this is what I'm worried about …
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-new-levies-imposed-and-threatened-2018-06-22

    The economic domino effect can be dramatic. Some industries will have a short lived reborn life (like steel /aluminum production) until it probably comes crashing down the longer and more diverse tariffs spread as higher prices and shifting employment cause sales drops and cash savings. Should be interesting. PMs don't seem to be a hedge at this point.
     
  8. s3v3n

    s3v3n New Member

    So, I am a bit new to all of this, and started asking questions in the other subs.. :) and they said this is the place to be, when discussing buying Gold/Silver/Platinum for long term, not specifically for Collecting purposes...

    So, he goes.. Aside from Monster Boxes, Platinum seems like a steal atm, or Gold buffalos, but the main question I have is it worth purchasing Slabbed coins for long term investment purposes?? Seems that they tend to appreciate if you hold them long enough. Or is it better to buy BULK Gold/Silver/Platinum coins?? I prefer Canadian coins as they seem to have the best PM content, and typicall sell for slightly less that US coins..

    I have read that it is a solid decision to maintain 15-20% of your net worth is PM's.. is this accurate?? What does everyone here typically think on that subject??

    Thoughts?? Suggestions??
     
  9. Silversloth

    Silversloth Member

    It maybe not It may not "buying" by some standards, Scottsdale ran a sale on 10 Ounce Silver Stacker's . I bought one. I'm about tapped out for a while. Unless it starts getting silly...

    Before I joined CT I read an old thread. It was from time the silver spot fall fell from the low 30s . I think someone mortgaged their house to buy in the mid 20s...

    The fall from 20 to $13 is every bit as painful as the drop from the low 30s to $ 20.
    Keep some power dry.
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  10. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    There's a lot of questions there.

    You'll have a variety of answers based upon the methodology each person has.

    For instance (a) you have ppl buying PMs because the world's economies will wilt and only PMs will be accepted; (b) ppl who believe PMs will skyrocket to $25k/oz for gold etc; (c) ppl who think PMs are pretty to look at and like collecting it for that reason; and everything in between.

    then you have ppl who buy (a) junk silver (non coin); (b) junk coin silver; (c) round/bar PMs close to spot; (d) slabbed PMs; (e) high premium./rare bars, rounds etc; (f) gov't issues PM coins; (g) gov't issued slabbed PM coins.

    Then you have your (a) Silver lovers; (b) Gold lovers; (c) ppl who play the premium between silver and gold to increase their overall holdings; (d) platinum ppl; (e) Palladium.

    Then you'll have ppl who buy gold at close to spot as possible - making irrelevant if it's South African Kuggerand, Canadian Maples, Austrian, Australian, UK, etc. Then some ppl (like me) who ONLY buy US Eagles.

    Is platinum a steal right now? If you can buy it close to spot. And assuming the price recovers.

    I follow Platinum actually. a few months ago the premium between US Platinum eagles BU and Proof OGP was only $10-20. Now it's $70 yikes !!
    But why do I collect Proof Platinum eagles … for the eagle design on the reverse. That's it. Period.

    Gold, I like Pre-33s
    Silver- ASEs

    But I don't buy slabbed coins. "my belief" is I like to stay as close to "spot" as possible. As in a down economy the premium you pay in a upward economy is going to be slaughtered in a down economy. If you sell to a LCS they'll offer only spot for BU, Proof or PF70 Proof. Quite a potential loss of original acquisition costs. Plus who knows where spot is going to be in a down or up economy.

    If you look at 2011, we're at a gigantic LOSS today if you bought at spot.

    Time is your friend (or enemy). Spot prices *should* rise over a certain amount of time .. let's say 20 years. On the other hand, I can get a savings account that gets 1.8% and probably BEAT that spot price in 20 years.

    "15-20%" YIKES. I've heard 3-5% and other numbers all over the place. Really it comes down to what you feel comfortable with.

    For instance, my stocks have skyrocketed in the past year. Like 300%. How do I keep up with PMs? stop buying food and buy PMs? I don't think so.

    I stopped buying PMs and the overall % of PMs to net worth has been dropping. I have NO PROBLEM with that as I'm comfortable with the TOTAL QUANTITY that I have and not the Percentage.

    Hope that helps. But with PMs ppl usually *find* the answer that they are comfortable with based upon their methodology of what answer they are looking for.
     
    Silversloth, s3v3n and abuckmaster147 like this.
  11. s3v3n

    s3v3n New Member

    Wow, That is an awesome answer, much appreciated.

    So, based on what you do, why do you choose US coins over Canadian coins, when the metal content (aside from platinum) is much better in Canadian Coins?? is it purely because of the image? or because it is American??

    I have also noticed that Canadian coins tend to be cheaper compared to their American counter parts.

    For me personally, I have a little of everything atm. I have a bunch of Maple Leaf monster boxes, purely for Edited ~ Read rules about Language abbreviations situation as it is much easier to barter with silver coins than gold (specifically due to smaller denominations/value) I do have also a decent amount of Slabbed coins based on what they tend to appreciate for in 10+ years should be much higher than I paid for them, But I have mainly been buying Platinum Maple leafs lately as they are technically far more precious than gold (based on existence) and they are used for more than just Jewelry. I started buying bulk Gold and Platinum maple leafs and buying capsules for them to try and keep them as untouched. and the capsules can be reused for other coins if I sold any.

    I am purely in this for the monetary aspects. I am fortunate that I can buy/sell these without taxes, and the funds I am spending are also tax free. (long story) but I want to maintain this wealth for my family for many years. I am also in stocks/bonds, and while I had a stellar first few months, I have been going sideways for the last few as well, as the markets are also a long game, need time to make money.

    I guess my biggest concern is not knowing what people expect the markets to do with PM long term, as they are limited in availability, one would expect them to go up over time, and as the economy tanks in waves, they also tend to do the opposite. I also like legal tender PM coins, as you can cross boarders with them legally if ever needed, and be able to move more wealth than if you carried cash (10k limit) as since the gold/silver platinum coins are legal tender at their face value, the overall value is much higher.

    Sorry for rambling.. :) I get pretty excited about all this, so I am learning everything i can..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2018
  12. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    I collect designs.
    There was only ONE Canadian design that I liked in the past. The Hologram
    2001 Maple Leaf REV 3D a.JPG

    Plus I really don't have much faith in any foreign PM coins
    Sure you get can closer to 100% but you can buy them for less, and you can sell them for less ... There's always a Buyback price, a spot + premium price which all vary. You need to keep a spreadsheet over time to track the variances and track the economy in relation to that spread to know how they react over time. If you wander in previous pages you'll see some tracking of ASE prices in relation to spot. Sometimes when spot drops the actual purchase price doesn't .. premium just goes up.

    In content,
    US Platinum Eagles are 99.95%
    US Gold Eagles are 91.67% Au 3% Ag 5.33% Cu
    US Modern $5 Commems are 90%?
    Gold Buffalo are .9999
    and then there's pre-33s and various others
    So you can pick your poison.

    so let's explore that economic crash scenario. When we lost power in the midwest blackout in 2003 (US and Canada) which lasted up to 2 weeks in some areas.

    So what was the "money" of choice?

    Cash. Right?

    stores are set up for cash + electronic. Not for anything barter? Their suppliers want cash as it is a form of transactions now for a very long time. NOT silver/gold. Don't even bring in Platinum as ppl are mostly unaware of platinum. Some may think your $100 coin is fake and totally refuse it. A bank may or may not take it for conversion to .. wait for it .. wait for it .. cash at face value.

    Think about bartering for a second. how much is a silver coin worth ?
    okay, now that you have answered that question how do you know the answer?

    Because you track spot price right?

    okay, with electronic commerce and forex commerce blacked out .. where does spot lie now? Umm ... if one is not used to silver /gold money that value may drop down to face value. Spot becomes very localized without interstate and international trading markets (the very thing that killed PM based money). So how does that now affect your cash conversion into PMs for those emergencies when barter is required ?

    I kept cash for emergencies as that is the only true "money" once electronic communications is blacked out for any length of time. Other than that those 2 weeks with no power, gasoline became the leading commodity of choice other than food. I had bunches of that too, which actually came in very handy as ppl would pay quite a premium for it although I didn't gouge ppl. I gave some away for ppl that wanted to leave the area and couldn't get to a ATM becz they were all shut down. Matter of fact, they never paid me back now that I think of it. Oh well.

    Of course, without a failure like that we are limited to the 10k, etc valuations. Which we should a complete and utter failure of electronic markets I don't think we will ever see.

    But I don't really stack PMs although I have a bunch of ASEs. So I have a totally different aspect to collecting them.

    I like the design. I collect designs. PMs have nice designs as I primary collect coins with the Bald Eagle on them and there's many US coins with bald eagles. The Canadian snow hawks of one recent release I had no interest. All the privy marks, no interest in the design. If a Canadian coin had a bald eagle, I might get one.

    Now I do like the Canadian coins with sail boats on them too, but I have a few of those I got when I was a kid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  13. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    Watch the Language ~ Abbreviations included.
     
  14. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Ooh and I wouldn’t mind having coins with US Battleships, destroyers etc on them. That would be kewl.
     
  15. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    It's a new day and Futures are UP
    upload_2018-7-3_8-5-12.png

    interesting article about Gold / Platinum ratio as a Stock Market Predictor ?? ==> https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-says-stocks-still-have-their-mojo-2018-07-03

    US Dollar Index is going down, which based on simple technicals should have PMs going up.
    upload_2018-7-3_8-5-51.png


    SILVER - BINGO they are going up.
    upload_2018-7-3_8-6-32.png

    GOLD
    upload_2018-7-3_8-6-55.png

    PLATINUM
    upload_2018-7-3_8-7-17.png

    @abuckmaster147 @LA_Geezer


    on another note, a couple years ago I got into investing in the Personal Loan Business, ie, Lending Tree, Prosper investor. That was good for about a year with high returns. Though this year it's BUST with about a 1.8% return not actually going back up at 2.18% But I stopped the contracts over a year ago as the subprime used car market was getting a higher amount of defaults. And these lending scenarios I also put in the Junk Loan pile as they are all unsecured. AFter I stopped due to the subprime car loan market defaulting these loans also started defaulting. yup, wish I could sell the contracts but you can, but it's very hard to. With household debt racking up again pre2008 crash, housing prices still going up and up, something has got to give. ==> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...rge-to-a-record-as-fintech-firms-lead-the-way

    I found ppl don't mind loans for about 12-16 months. After that they don't want the debt and don't relate to it's origins anymore. So the default ratio starts rising. So now let's see how that plays out in the marketplace too over time but the interest rates are high for what they are. I can't imagine paying 23% for anything, much less 15%.

    So as ppl leverage their debt up, we'll see over time how it impacts the overall economy and markets.

    and if all that didn't bore you, this might ==> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...urve-fed-funds-is-where-debt-market-action-is
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  16. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Yes, yesterday was a good time to buy :)
     
  17. abuckmaster147

    abuckmaster147 Well-Known Member

    And here ya told me everything was gonna Tank So I got in a tizzy and sold everything!!!
     
  18. abuckmaster147

    abuckmaster147 Well-Known Member

    I sold the tractors, the Animals, The Kids, Momma's Vehicle, and mortgage the farm to the brink!!! And bought one lonely ounce of silver!!!. :woot::woot::dead::cigar:
     
  19. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    No I said you should buy a TANK to store all the PMs you should have bought yesterday. :)
    upload_2018-7-3_8-35-51.jpeg


    Well it's going up today, so you're in luck.
     
    abuckmaster147 likes this.
  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    This right here. Rises and falls are measured in percentages, not dollars per whatever. Silver can fall just as far from $16 as it can from $50. (And rise, of course.)
     
    Silversloth likes this.
  21. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    I track all my investments in actual dollars so I track the price, not percentages. Percentages do not provide a real picture to do calculations and valuations off of.
     
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