Are CAC stickers useless on MS?

To me, CAC is a grade of the TPG'ers.

Maybe it signifies high-end for a grade but many times to me it just confirms that it is SOLID for the grade.

I think the TPG'ers have eliminated 90% of the disagreements on coins (just check out our Guess The Grade threads even for popular series like Morgan's or Saints) and CAC raises that to 99%.

 

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I disagree. Here's why:

For many coins -- especially moderns -- I think a computer scan can now look for so many minute imperfections that it can allow actual human graders to focus on aesthetics. I think it's worth it to employ a computer scan and am surprised that with self-driving cars on the horizon that the TPG's haven't incorporated this as an additional aid and security check (computer scans/photos digitalized at the get-go) already.

30 years ago when the TPGs started CPU's could process only a few hundred or thousand complex operations per second. Today, it's millions or tens of millions. You can certainly program an algorithm that looks for various items (metallic content, scratches, bumps, friction rub, discoloration, maybe even toning). It might not be perfect but it would certainly help especially with modern coins where you are mostly looking to grade the coins MS-68, 69, or 70.

To me, this would be an ADDITIONAL factor you would get from a TPG, not the only thing.

I read somewhere that the average grader at a TPG is looking at 500 coins a day, maybe more (I've heard as many as 700). Do the math: that means probably less than 1 minute per coin. I think I read where a grader said the average was closer to 30 seconds per coin (it's not like they are on a conveyor belt; they need to have the coins brought to them, opened, passed around, etc. -- it takes time).

That time per coin doesn't take into account needing to take a break, lunch, bathroom, coffee/cigarette break,
my eyes are strained I need a break, etc. Unless they are working 12-14 hour days.

I know those guys are experts and they can work faster than a novice like me and maybe even some of you veterans. But how much faster ?

 

You're starting from erroneous premises. Start at what a "grade" is. Ask yourself, e.g., what's the grade of a baseball card; what's the grade of a pocket watch; what's the grade of a note; what's the grade of a comic book? I'm going to say, without your knowing one thing relative to any of those hobbies, you know, the higher the grade, the better the state of preservation, or condition, of the specimen. You know, in other words, the "grade" is a function of the state of preservation or condition. In fact, that's what gives it meaning. Except for coins. For coins, the "grade" is how eye-appealing the market says the specimens are, so long as that's up backed with the market's wallets. There's your coin grade, in a nut. Go ahead, dissect it. Good luck with that...

 

That makes way too much sense. You know what happens to people that make sense? Look at what happens to trump when he makes sense, half the population tries to crucify him. Be careful how much sense you make, it gets me into trouble a lot.

 

No, the opinion of most collectors. Apparently, you're the exception.

 

Endeavor, you state:

I agree with MD: it definitely has value, however, IMO, I do think you make a good point that the differences are minute WITHIN (and among) the Mint State grades.

If you read Albanese's comments a decade ago in various interviews, the reason for CAC was to differentiate among A-B-C coins WITHIN a grade. Makes sense, and no doubt they do it sometimes. But given that the TPGs and many experts (some here) have trouble agreeing on some/many coins within 2 grades (let alone WITHIN 1 grade), the best value for CAC may be to just grade the graders.

In other words, confirming the original grade was legit.

Maybe we should form a company to grade CAC !!

 

The CAC horse is dead.

 

There are two kinds of collectors. There is the kind that fights the idea of being pushed around by the marketing, and the other kind. You and most are the other kind.

 

eddiespin, posted: "There are two kinds of collectors. There is the kind that fights the idea of being pushed around by the marketing, and the other kind."

I disagree! There are three kinds of collectors. Those who can add and understand math, and those who cannot.

 

Chiming in on this old post because I saw this today...how in heck can a Green Bean possibly increase the value (and I'm sure it will) of a AG3 graded coin?

 

A green bean will generally bring a higher price for your coin in the market place. You can like that fact or you can hate that fact. You can even chose not to participate, but it's still a fact. I personally chose not to participate BUT if I get the right coin at the right price and it happens to have a CAC sticker on it, I might be a hypocrite but I'm not going to peel it off either.

 

Simple, because it does. Note the coin is a "key" date and this side is G-4 so the other side may be very worn into the rim.

 

a friend of mine loves to say, "That's the thing about facts. Whether you like them or not, they're still true."

 

I'll never understand the peel them off crowd

 

it's the same crowd that busts coins out of TPG slabs because they want the coin in their album.

 

More than that. There is a small crowd that will keep it slabbed and just peel the sticker off

 

'Tis kind of a foolish "cut off one's nose to spite their face" sort of thing... Regardless of what one thinks or feels about CAC, the sticker isn't going to hurt and can only help, but to each his own, I suppose...

 

Yeah, already knew about the key date...but an AG3?

 

WOW! that's a new one! Really BB, you know someone who has done that?